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Ace Attorney is great because for once the teenage girls get to be teenage girls and instead the 30 year old pathetic ass men are babygirlified to hell and back

genre subversions of dating sims by people who don't understand dating sims are just like. "wow isn't it so pathetic that you're playing this instead of getting a real relationship?" (i don't know where "dating sim that becomes a horror game" goes on the subversion scale)

meanwhile i haven't seen one that is made by someone who loves the genre. i am worried that my "what if the love interests hated being in the game but it's because the script is too restrictive" is too mean to dating sims. i swear using a dating sim script as a metaphor for being forced into certain kinds of femininity is NOT reflective of my views of dating sims it's FINE to play dating sims--

Yeah, I agree~ I would say that the "secretly a horror game" twist kinda depends on the game and how it treats its characters. Like, Hatoful Boyfriend has a neat twist to it while still feeling like it treats its characters and story with love, so I was honestly a little surprised to find out its creator doesn't play otome at all. I haven't play DDLC personally, but I've heard a similar sort of story about its creator I think? I feel like so many people set out to subvert the dating sim genre specifically because they think of it as a joke or because they think it's so easy to replicate without any experience.

I love genre subversions, so I would love to see a good one in the otome genre. BUT~ In response to your other point, I also think that being critical of a genre you like and/or using that genre to make a critique of something like societal standards for femininity & such doesn't necessarily come across as hateful to the genre. In fact, I think that really good genre subversions DO use the genre conventions to make a critique of something (whether it's a critique of society or of the genre itself) because that's what makes the subversion interesting.

I'm gonna use one of my favorite genre subversions as an example real quick: The Guy Who Didn't Like Musicals is a great twist on the genre conventions that exist in musical theatre as a medium, and it uses its subversion to make a critique about conformity through its main metaphor (ie: an alien hivemind makes people sing and dance and the show's hero is the one guy who hates musicals). It's a great horror-comedy that's clearly made by people who love musicals, even if its protagonist hates them and there are important plot reasons for why you really don't want your favorite characters to be singing.

BUT!! The important thing is that while it subverts expectations for what you'd expect from a musical and uses the songs & hivemind as a metaphor for enforced conformity, the show never makes the audience feel stupid for liking the genre. It's campy, and it's silly, and the main character is the voice of dissent, but it doesn't leave you with a feeling that the genre as a whole is stupid or bad, or that you're stupid for liking it. Because it's made out of love for the genre. Which is the main thing I think.

It's really important for these types of stories to critique the right things. There has to be more thought put into it than just "look at this genre, isn't it weird/stupid/bad? well we're gonna change things and be Not-Like-Those-Other-Things because we're the Cool/Edgy/Ironic Take on this genre!!" (ie: don't critique the audience or make them feel bad for enjoying the genre you chose. or do, but do it consciously and know that your audience is primarily going to be other people who dislike the genre -- which is probably why so many gag dating sims are popular since it's pretty common to look down on the genre). What I mean is, if the whole point of the critique is that the original genre is stupid, it's probably a bad and thoughtless critique.

But anywho, I think your critique is totally fine and really cool actually. It's okay to be mean to a genre you like as a form of critique, and I think it's really good actually to think deeper about the stories you love and consider them critically. The problems with genre subversion come up when people who don't really know or like the genre decide to subvert it just because they think poorly of it, y'know?

she was so funny for this. just openly and enthusiastically encouraging her brother to become a homewrecker

obsessed with them <3

Am I the only one who thought Rozy was a girl based on the trailer? People were like "oh Rozy has a secret identity" and I was like yeah I bet he's secretly a girl called Rosie and is pretending to be a boy because sexism. Then I find out that no, Rozy is not a girl, and not only that but there are no Yuri routes at all.

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