genre subversions of dating sims by people who don't understand dating sims are just like. "wow isn't it so pathetic that you're playing this instead of getting a real relationship?" (i don't know where "dating sim that becomes a horror game" goes on the subversion scale)
meanwhile i haven't seen one that is made by someone who loves the genre. i am worried that my "what if the love interests hated being in the game but it's because the script is too restrictive" is too mean to dating sims. i swear using a dating sim script as a metaphor for being forced into certain kinds of femininity is NOT reflective of my views of dating sims it's FINE to play dating sims--
Yeah, I agree~ I would say that the "secretly a horror game" twist kinda depends on the game and how it treats its characters. Like, Hatoful Boyfriend has a neat twist to it while still feeling like it treats its characters and story with love, so I was honestly a little surprised to find out its creator doesn't play otome at all. I haven't play DDLC personally, but I've heard a similar sort of story about its creator I think? I feel like so many people set out to subvert the dating sim genre specifically because they think of it as a joke or because they think it's so easy to replicate without any experience.
I love genre subversions, so I would love to see a good one in the otome genre. BUT~ In response to your other point, I also think that being critical of a genre you like and/or using that genre to make a critique of something like societal standards for femininity & such doesn't necessarily come across as hateful to the genre. In fact, I think that really good genre subversions DO use the genre conventions to make a critique of something (whether it's a critique of society or of the genre itself) because that's what makes the subversion interesting.
I'm gonna use one of my favorite genre subversions as an example real quick: The Guy Who Didn't Like Musicals is a great twist on the genre conventions that exist in musical theatre as a medium, and it uses its subversion to make a critique about conformity through its main metaphor (ie: an alien hivemind makes people sing and dance and the show's hero is the one guy who hates musicals). It's a great horror-comedy that's clearly made by people who love musicals, even if its protagonist hates them and there are important plot reasons for why you really don't want your favorite characters to be singing.
BUT!! The important thing is that while it subverts expectations for what you'd expect from a musical and uses the songs & hivemind as a metaphor for enforced conformity, the show never makes the audience feel stupid for liking the genre. It's campy, and it's silly, and the main character is the voice of dissent, but it doesn't leave you with a feeling that the genre as a whole is stupid or bad, or that you're stupid for liking it. Because it's made out of love for the genre. Which is the main thing I think.
It's really important for these types of stories to critique the right things. There has to be more thought put into it than just "look at this genre, isn't it weird/stupid/bad? well we're gonna change things and be Not-Like-Those-Other-Things because we're the Cool/Edgy/Ironic Take on this genre!!" (ie: don't critique the audience or make them feel bad for enjoying the genre you chose. or do, but do it consciously and know that your audience is primarily going to be other people who dislike the genre -- which is probably why so many gag dating sims are popular since it's pretty common to look down on the genre). What I mean is, if the whole point of the critique is that the original genre is stupid, it's probably a bad and thoughtless critique.
But anywho, I think your critique is totally fine and really cool actually. It's okay to be mean to a genre you like as a form of critique, and I think it's really good actually to think deeper about the stories you love and consider them critically. The problems with genre subversion come up when people who don't really know or like the genre decide to subvert it just because they think poorly of it, y'know?
Super excited to be sharing my thoughts on Virche now that I've finished all the endings! This game had some great moments and I kept detailed notes on all the routes as I played them. I have a spoiler-free review here on backloggd in case you haven't played the game yet. Otherwise, I'll be detailing my thoughts here with spoilers under the cut!
The game as a whole is a 4/5 for me with an interesting storyline, beautiful art, and compelling characters. However, the game's biggest strength is its tragic romances and compelling bad endings. I am a huge fan of tragedy and I adore bad endings, so this is certainly a game that speaks to my interests directly. I really liked this game and I highly recommend it!
Now for my thoughts on the characters and routes...
(Note: Comments in the pictured slides are from my playthrough notes, written as I played the game. Comments underneath in the post are written after completing the whole game and reflecting on it.)
I love Ceres. I think she's a great character. While she doesn't quite make it to the top of my favorite heroines list, she's a pretty strong contender. Her outlook on life and death was unique, and I enjoyed seeing the story through her eyes. Her little sprites in the corner were adorable as well, and I liked that her outfits changed in some routes.
I expected to really like Scien when I started this game. He reminded me of Shiraishi from Collar x Malice, so I thought he'd be a great contender for my favorite in this game. However, his route just doesn't hit the same as the others do. I played it first and enjoyed it a lot, but when I went back to play his good ending I was underwhelmed and disappointed. That's not to say his route is bad, though! I loved his tragic ending, and I found it fun to watch Ceres spend time with him and his weird little attitude. It's always fun to watch the supposedly heartless characters fall in love, and seeing him grow to love Ceres, seeing him change the aims of his scientific mission so he can continue loving her, was a really nice experience. Scien's route is good, and I liked it! But I liked others more…
My god, this route surprised me. I didn't expect to like Mathis, but while I was playing his route his interactions with Ceres were just so cute. The twist in his route was unexpected, but fascinating and well-foreshadowed, and I was completely invested in the story. His tragic ending hit hard and his good ending subverted it extremely well. I really grew to adore Mathis in this route, and returning to play his good ending only solidified that feeling. He and Ceres aren't my favorite match in the game, but this route is really, really good. There's not much else I can say without spoilers, but I highly recommend playing it.
This is an unpopular opinion. I know Lucas is very well-liked by other fans, and his route is certainly very interesting! It just wasn't for me. Lucas was the third route I played and it met my expectations pretty well (my expectation being that I wouldn't like it). I think his character is very interesting, and I enjoyed the plot in his route, but I can't say I was all that interested in Lucas and Ceres' romance. His tragic ending is certainly tragic, but his good end wasn't really my favorite. It was more interesting to read than Scien's good end, though.
Yves is my favorite love interest in this game, and the best match for Ceres. I loved seeing them together. This route is locked behind the first three, and it's extremely plot heavy with a lot of big reveals about the lore and the nature of Ceres' title of Death. Yves and Ceres are adorable together, and I loved getting to see more of Yves' character in this route. There's not a ton I can say without spoiling things, but it truly feels like these two were made for each other. The bad end is extremely tragic and the good end is perfectly bittersweet. They're the exact same kind of weirdo, and they deserve to be clingy and in love forever. <3
My biggest frustration with Le Salut is that it makes you replay so much of the common route before actually adding anything new. Once the plot diverges, things start to get a little more interesting, but it doesn't really pick up until the final third of the route when all the plot pieces begin to slot into place. This is a joint route is for two of the love interests: Ankou, the mysterious Watchman of Death; and Adolphe, Ceres' protective foster brother – a combo which makes a lot more sense once you finish the route. The plot reveals in this route were foreshadowed well, and I was able to figure most of them out ahead of time. The writing in this route was good, and I liked the complexity and intrigue of the plot. The major plot twist really incorporates the game's themes of tragic love and unusual relationships with death really well. My main issues are that it took too long to get going at the beginning, and that I don't really care for Adolphe. The Salvation ending of Le Salut is essentially the game's "true" ending – as close to a happily ever after as you're going to get for most everyone – and after playing it you can return to other routes to play their good endings too.
I took the opportunity here to showcase some of my favorite cgs of my top 3 that didn't make it onto their main slides. Yes, of course, Yves is my favorite. As much as I like the other characters, it wasn't much of a competition lol. His romance with Ceres was my absolute favorite plot in the game, and I love their story. Second place is Mathis, as he was this game's big surprise for me. I truly loved his route despite my initial low expectations. It's always a joy to be surprised by a route that's better than you thought it would be! :)
Virche is a great game, and I would definitely recommend it to any fellow bad ending lovers out there. <3 Thank you so much for reading, and please let me know what you thought about Virche! I'd love to talk about this game with y'all! :)
slideshow was adapted from this template <3
Elise… I would also go on this journey to end up with Freya or Leb 🍇🌼🌾🥨✨
yayyyyyy I'm so glad i could help!!! :))
good luck & happy writing!! it already sounds amazing!
Am I the only one who thought Rozy was a girl based on the trailer? People were like "oh Rozy has a secret identity" and I was like yeah I bet he's secretly a girl called Rosie and is pretending to be a boy because sexism. Then I find out that no, Rozy is not a girl, and not only that but there are no Yuri routes at all.
otome gamers who dont actually like men Unite (i'm a lesbian lol)
yesssssss hello!!!!! :)
lesbian otome gamers🤝aro otome gamers
edgeworth and franziska both have this weird childishness about them that totally goes against their outward appearances and it makes me so sooooo emotional like yeah edgeworth is weird about his idiot sports car he’s in his early twenties he's going to be be obsessed with a sports car. of course franziska gets grossed out when it’s suggested she split a swiss roll with him eww that’s her brother and she is NOT sharing that's GROSS! of course he's obsessed with a children's show. of course she overuses her favourite word. she’s literally a teenager. they’re literally big tall kids. waa
I think people on here operate on a very weird definition of "conventionally attractive" where anything humanoid is already too normal for them. When society at large is like "if you're not skinny and white and able bodied and cisgender you're basically unfuckable"
i swear i keep meaning to finish Hamefura pirates, but honestly i may end up having to skip Keith's route and move on to the others. I'm just kinda stuck with it. It's a nice story, and I do like Keith as a character, but as much as I want to play all the routes and give them each a fair shot, I just don't really want to see Keith & Katarina's relationship progress romantically. The siscon thing just isn't my vibe, and I just haven't felt like playing the game any further for his route. My completionist brain is very upset about this, so I may end up playing it eventually, just so I can have complete thoughts about the game...
top tier problem solving skills, Kata. surely these are the only two possible solutions
thank you for reminding me to actually join the otome jam on itch lmao
no problem lol! i reblogged the post so i'd remember to go play some of the entries once they're posted, so i'm excited to see what everyone makes. :) it's super cool that you're joining!!
I'm Wren! I like otome games, rpgs, and mysteries! Feel free to reach out, as I'd love to chat! :)
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