Amazing How Uncannily Fitting Are The Words Of That Song.

Can you tell me why aziraphel said ‘I forgive you’ ?

I wish I could tell you, anon 😔 I've seen a few speculations on it, all of which I found interesting and valid.

I guess my opinion is that Aziraphale defaults to a forgiveness response whenever Crowley offers (tempts him with) something that competes with his duty to Heaven - or the Goodness he still thinks Heaven is capable of, maybe.

Off the top of my head, Aziraphale 'forgives' Crowley at the bandstand the first time he says fuck the ineffable plan actually, let's just go. Then again during their argument in the street the second time Crowley suggests (begs) going off together, just the two of them. And now we have this third time, when yet again Crowley has placed himself as a mutually exclusive option to Heaven.

I think there's something to it being a personal temptation. As in, a selfish one. In the Job flashback we saw Aziraphale let Crowley 'tempt' him into lying to Heaven. He was utterly convinced he'd fall as consequence, but he accepted that because his actions had been for the sake of Job and his family.

Whereas these choices Crowley is asking him to make aren't selfless at all, they're very personal. It's asking that Aziraphale choose Crowley himself over Heaven. Ultimately, Aziraphale lets Crowley tempt him on all sorts of inconsequential matters like food and other indulgences - but not this. Not once. And whenever he feels Crowley is trying (whether Crowley intends it that way or not) it's the only thing he regards as a real trespass or offence. So he forgives him, which is the only possible option if he wants to keep his most precious friendship.

Except this time Crowley says don't bother, because Aziraphale has chosen Heaven over him one too many times 😕

I hope that's a coherent response, I mostly worked out my feelings on the subject as I was writing!

The last panel is truly frightening!

Keep it up @neil-gaiman, it will be over soon

Aziraphale loves Crowley so much that he is willing to rebuild heaven for him.

He loves him so much he is willing to give up everything if it means there is a chance he might smile again

Aziraphale loves Crowley so much that he will rewrite existence if Crowley can make stars again

Crowley loves Aziraphale so much that he doesn't need any of that

He loves him so much that he doesn't need heaven, or happiness, or the stars

Crowley loves Aziraphale so much that he is Crowley's heaven, or happiness, or stars

They love each other so much that it blinded them, and they never asked the other how they wanted to be loved

Lil rant incoming. I was watching a clip on an insta fan account of when Aziraphale and Crowley arrive at the theatre in 1941 and Azi is being all cute and excited and I noticed someone commented this:

And seriously I felt so shocked because I'm so used to our cozy little echo chamber here where we all adore the ineffable husbands.

The ineffables are dorky af, we know that. They are unapologetically ridiculous and goofy and that's part of what makes them so compelling. They are hilariously cartoonish but also have such profound depth and complexity. These characters are so incredibly special that they have impacted all of us here in an intense, visceral manner.

I'm rambling here but my point is... mah point is.... mah point IS... dolphins Silliness is important. What will feel cringey to the wrong people will be perceived as an endearing part of who you are by the right people. Be as weird as your nasty little heart desires. 

@ineffabildaddy - I remembered our "cool" discourse again while typing this!

Okay, just curious if I'm alone on this—I kinda don't like the new TARDIS interior. Like, I get that it harkens back to the older designs (yes, including the round things), but it just feels... empty. There's so much blank space.

And take this from a theydy whose favorite interiors are the 8th Doctor’s and the 11th’s first one. I do love that it’s mostly accessible—though some of those ramps to the higher doors definitely aren’t—and from a lighting perspective, it looks fun. But it just... I don’t know, doesn’t feel lived in.

I loved that the 9th/10th Doctor’s chair thing had holes and was slowly losing its stuffing—it made the space feel used. The 1st Doctor had old-timey chairs and random furniture cluttering the space, clashing beautifully with the ship’s sci-fi aesthetic. The 12th added bookcases and chalkboards, making the space feel like a mad scientist’s study, full of ideas and chaos. And the 8th Doctor’s TARDIS? Absolute charm. It had that warm, gothic library-meets-Victorian-parlor aesthetic—cozy, dramatic, and just oozing with personality. It felt like a place where stories happened, not just where adventures started.

And I mean, the 15th added a jukebox, which is something, but I just wish the interior had more personality, more pizazz, you know? Especially since so much of his wardrobe blends old aesthetics with new. A lot of his looks feel inspired by the ‘60s, so why not lean into that in the TARDIS design? Imagine some of that weird, old-timey ‘60s furniture scattered around—those funky, space-age egg chairs, bold sculptural coffee tables, or even a mod-style couch. A black-and-white checkerboard floor or a weird geometric rug somewhere would add so much to the vibe. It wouldn’t just match him, it would make the space feel intentional, like the TARDIS is reflecting his era-blending energy instead of just being a big, empty sci-fi room. But even if they did all that, it wouldn’t suddenly make this my favorite TARDIS design—I mean, the 8th Doctor’s is right there. But it would make the space feel more distinct, more like an extension of the Doctor himself. A more unique, character-driven design wouldn’t just make the TARDIS visually interesting, it would enhance the storytelling. The TARDIS isn’t just a backdrop; it’s a reflection of who the Doctor is in that era. Giving it more personality would make the 15th Doctor’s run feel more his, rather than just another iteration of a familiar aesthetic. It would make the ship feel lived in.

Look back in the past

Don't even know why, but somehow it's mesmerising.

This has probably been already done to death, but I wanted to draw a museum scene anyway c: The paintings are from Luca Giordano btw!

Takin' Over The Asylum (1994) | 1.02 Fly Like an Eagle

the worst part about the ending of season 2 is that it's actually very well written. it makes perfect sense and it's a very realistic conflict which makes it hurt even more. but i do have hope because this conflict IS solvable. and also, there is absolutely no way neil is going to give aziraphale and crowley a bad ending.

And here it is, the key point (well, okay, one of the key points) - Aziraphale really cannot abandon the idea that Crowley's goodness is an unextinguished spark that he has retained from his times as an angel. Therefore, if Crowley were to be reinstated in Heaven, it would bring him back his long lost integrity and "fullness of joy" (as in the Bible, yes). He knows perfectly well that Crowley is unhappy and has never been happy in all these 6000 years. Of course, he cannot help but want to "put everything back the way it was". And he can't/doesn't understand that for Crowley this is simply not an option.

On understanding and other things

I think part of the reason why that final talk is so painful is because it shows that they don't know each other as well as they wanted to believe. Both of their ideas about who the other is and what they want are based mostly on what they want the other to be and not on who they really are.

They both want to be together, but in different ways. Aziraphale wants them to be on the same side, on the side of heaven. Crowley wants them to be on their own side, one apart from heaven and hell and everything they know, one where they can be themselves as Crowley and Aziraphale, not as angel and demon or even angel and angel.

And I think the reason they want such different things has to do with a number of things that could be summed up in their different life experiences and, consequently, their views on idealism and big changes.

Aziraphale never got over who they were in the beginning. I think for both of them that might have been one of the most beautiful moments of their lives, because they were still together, on the same side, simply in awe of the beauty of creation and unaware of the problems that would arise in the future. It is the only part of their history where they could be on the same side without breaking the rules, so it is only natural that Aziraphale remembers it as the best of times. But it ended with Crowley being unfairly cast out, so it's only sensible that he has a completely different perception.

And Aziraphale still believes Crowley to be an angel. He interprets his rejection of evil and his pursuit of goodness as a remnant of the angel he used to be and his desire to be one again. And actually, this interpretation makes sense, but it’s just not the correct one. Crowley has again and again denied his demon nature, doing everything in his power to do as little evil as possible without his head office noticing, yes, but not because he wants to be an angel.

Crowley has given up the idea of heaven as fundamentally good a long time ago, as it has proven, in more than one ocassion, to be capable of as much cruelty as hell itself in the name of an imagined greater good. Crowley's experience as an angel was good only at the very beginning. Once he learned that heaven was more about following rules than doing good, his idea of it was lost.

In short, Crowley doesn't want to be a demon any more than he wants to be an angel. It is not a matter of which side, but of the existence of sides per se. He does not like the system and does not want to be part of it from either side.

That is why he is hurt, because after so long, Aziraphale misunderstood his true nature. Crowley wants to be good, yes, but not in an angelic way. He doesn't want to go back to the place where rules and great plans matter more than real goodness. He just wants to be himself, outside of preconceived ideas of good and evil.

And so Aziraphale's offer to return to all that comes to Crowley as a disappointment. To realise that after all these years the one person you can consider a friend doesn't really understand you, the one person who has stood by you, listened to you, protected you, and done everything that no one else ever did. That even that person can't understand what you are, well, it must have felt like a stab in the chest.

And the same is true the other way around.

Crowley wanted to think that after the events of s1, Aziraphale had finally accepted who he was and what he (they) wanted. In the same way that Crowley hasn't been good at being a demon, Aziraphale hasn't been good at being an angel, and Crowley thinks that puts them in the same place. But it doesn't, because although Aziraphale is not just a clueless angel who silently follows the rules, neither has he been let down in the same way that Crowley has.

As I mentioned earlier, their difference of opinion is based (not entirely, but largely) on their different experiences of heaven. Aziraphale has been let down by heaven a couple of times throughout history, but none of them could match what Crowley had to go through when he was cast out. Aziraphale knows this, but he can never truly understand it.

So even when they both understand that heaven is not ideal, one of them approaches it with exasperating idealism, while the other doesn't even try anymore.