Pro Team Green - Blog Posts

Questions I would like to ask Rhaenyra

As part of a thought experiment, I want to become an interviewer for the show!Rhaenyra Targaryen and ask her the most awkward questions, for which I would lose my journalist license (I don’t have such a license due to the fact that I’m annoying, suffer from ASD, and actually a lawyer, but If I had one, I would have lost it).

But here are some questions I would DEFINITELY ask, risking my hypothetical license:

1) Is it true that your second husband despises your half-siblings based on their mother's lineage? Did he find your mother, Aemma Arryn, equally disgusting? Do you agree with Daemon on this?

2) If Aegon were Aemma's son, would you have a problem naming him heir? If Baelon had survived but your father had married Alicent anyway, would you hate Aegon?

3) Hypothetically, if Aemma could give her opinion on the situation where you swore on her behalf that Daemon did not touch you, knowingly lying, what would she say? Would she be disappointed in you, since you are tarnishing her name and the sacrifice she made, undermining your own rights as an heir with your antics?

4) If you and Daemon believe that Alicent's children are not true Targaryens, can the same be said for your children with Harwin? They are not even 50%, but about 30% Valyrian, considering that you yourself are only 75% Valyrian. Has Daemon ever expressed disgust towards your older children?

5) At Aegon's second birthday party, were you really jealous of the baby, since he was the center of attention, not you? Is that why you went out of your way to ruin the party? Did you enjoy it?

6) Why the fuck didn't you find a father for your children with Laenor among the dragonseeds or the Velaryon bastards? Why Harwyn?

7) Did you really want to torture Aemond during the trial in Driftmark? Someone is trying to say that it was a trick, but we both know that a woman who fucks Daemon at the funeral of Daemon's wife doesn't know much about tricks.

8) Why didn't you ever visit your father after you moved to Dragonstone? Then it wouldn't have been such a shock to see him in his condition when you visited him to seek support against Vaemond and his petition. You weren't exiled (unlike in the book), so you could have seen him. Was it because you didn't want to or were there circumstances?

9) If Laenor hadn't gone along with the fake murder plan, what would you have done? Would you have let Daemon kill him? Didn't you feel sorry for Rhaenys and Corlys, who lost two children one after the other?

10) Do you realize that you have either four or five bastards? Your marriage to Daemon can't be considered official, considering that Laenor was still alive for some time. If he had returned to Westeros, your marriage to Daemon would have been annulled, and Aegon and Viserys would have been recognized as bastards.

This is just what came to mind right now, no deep thought. Besides, in five minutes Daemon would have appeared and chopped off my head for insolence.

Rhaenyra would never kill her own kin? Say it with your hand on the Bible and watch the Lord punish you for perjury

Team black stans is being almost hysterical, trying to convince us that Saint Rhaenyra would never dare to kill Alicent's children, that Otto and Alicent are the second and third coming of Satan, and they are must be blame for everything, from the birth of the Night King to the end of the Daenerys arc, and if it weren't for these two, Westeros would have already installed electricity, invented penicillin and learned to wash their asses more than once a month.

As proof, you are given quotes from a book that these fans have hardly read in its entirety, their own opinion, which, of course, is an indisputable fact and, sometimes, even "well, she would have killed some greens so what, why make such a fuss about it."

These people don't know how to work with a narrative, and it shows. Stories like Dance of the Dragons require you to dive into the personalities of both teams so you can understand the tragedy of the situation - a civil war between family members that will nearly destroy House Targaryen and Westeros.

Now imagine that you, Alyssa/Baelon Targaryen, are Alicent's fifth child. And this is a fanfic (show), not a book, so we're going to base this on the events of the adaptation.

Your father doesn't care about you, and you don't understand why. Did you do something wrong? Why does your father love your half-sister and her children, but not you and your siblings? Why doesn't he protect you from your nephews' bullying?

You don't get a dragon egg because they are few and far between, and Rhaenyra has another child who needs one more. You get the egg that comes later, or you ride a full-grown dragon.

Your half-sister Rhaenyra HATES you. She shows no shame in showing her disdain, barely tolerates your existence, and never punishes her children for bullying you. She won't talk to you, won't play with you, and even seems to hate your name.

You hear rumors that your nephews are bastards. You know that having bastards is wrong and against the Faith, and you don't understand why Rhaenyra is never punished for her bad deeds. You saw Aemond being scolded for standing up to our nephews, why is no one scolding Rhaenyra?

At Laena's funeral, your brother Aemond becomes a Vhagar rider, and Luke cuts out his eye for it. When the argument happens, you are afraid, scared, and crying, because father is angry at Aemond, and instead of comforting and protecting him, he demands something from him. Rhaenyra demands that Aemond be tortured, and no one protects your brother from her. Your father yells at Aegon because Aemond said that Aegon is the one who lied about your nephews being legitimate Velaryons. You don't understand how words can be as bad as your brother's injury. No one ever scolded or punished Rhaenyra for anything, so what if her children were called a bad word? Your father declares that there will be no punishment for your brother's injury, as if a lost eye is like a scratched knee and nothing bad happened. Your mother is angry at Rhaenyra and tries to hurt Luke, and suddenly she is the bad one and it's all her fault, and everyone has forgotten that Rhaenyra wanted to torture Aegon, who was hurt, as if it doesn't matter.

You are scared to get your dragon. What if Rhaena decides that this dragon was meant to be hers and you are a thief too, just like she accused Aemond? Will they cut out your eye too?

Laenor dies, and you hear that Rhaenyra has married Daemon, ignoring the mourning period. You remember this man - he laughed at Laena's funeral and frightened your mother with his presence. You have heard terrible things about him, and you are afraid to be near him - but thank the gods he does not come to the Red Keep, so you sleep peacefully. You are afraid to think about how exactly Laenor died, and whether Rhaenyra and Daemon were involved.

When your half-sister finally appears at the Red Keep, her first act is to claim Driftmark for her bastard son. When Vaemond Velaryon, your distant relative, calls her a whore and her children bastards, Daemon cuts off his head, and none of the Blacks look sad, even though he was a close relative to Rhaenys, Baela, and Rhaenyra's three eldest sons (presumably).

And that's just part of the shit that goes on in your life. If it were possible, you'd demand a refund.

If someone told you that Rhaenyra wouldn't kill you for the sake of her peaceful reign, would you believe them?

PS. not a native speaker and it shows, so what?

TB stans: the greens ones feel sorry for Jaehaerys for his cruel death, but they don’t feel sorry for Lucerys, who is exactly the same child!!!

Excuse me, but why is Lucerys a child? Do you need to be reminded that at the age of 15, Robb Stark led an army and went to the South to avenge the death of his father and rescue his sisters from captivity?

Remind you that Arya was exposed to the cruelty of the world at a young age when she was captured at Harrenhal and forced to watch the cruel deeds of Tywin Lannister?

Do you finally need to remember Shireen, whom her own father took on a hike in the dead of winter? She never once complained about her age.

Finally, think of Tommen, who also had to face the fanatics of the High Sparrow at a young age. I’m already silent about Bran and Rickon - they were in exile from a young age and wandered through foreign lands in search of help, and Bran generally went beyond the Wall and lived in the wilderness.

And after that TB stans call Lucerys a CHILD? what kind of child is he if he was sent as an ambassador on a responsible mission to gain the support of a great House for his mother? Would a child be sent on such a dangerous journey for dangerous negotiations? Or are you saying that Rhaenyra is so stupid that she didn't find anyone better than a child to be an ambassador? shut your mouths and be silent. stop comparing the deaths of a truly INNOCENT CHILD and a person who was a FIGURE in the war that started.

…And guilty of conspiracy to commit murder … and a sexual predator …and incompetent …and married to a serial rapist, pedophile, murderer (thrice over by now) …and sheltering a terrorist.

it's always both sides are bad :( when one of them is a rapist incompetent usurper and the other is... a woman

Sorry my friend, but your mixing up roles, protections and purpose here. Lucerys was a messenger who should have been and was protected by guest right in neutral territory. Aemond did not attack him in Borros‘ hall, as Borros guaranteed for his safety and attacking him wouöd have been an affront to Lord Borros. He then proceeded to leave that protected space.

And at that point it is important to remember what his mission was. The group of people that you must not attack and I assume you are thinking of are parlamentarians. But they come in to main flavours

1. To negotiate an end to hostilies, either by offering a surrender of their own side or terms and conditions for a surrender by the opposition.

2. For humanitarian purposes, like exchanging prisoners, evacuating non-combattants, evacuating the wounded, in ancient times asking for permission to recover the dead after a defeat.

These are communications that need to take place even (or especially) during war time to avoid the war turning into a completely senseless slaughter of everyone that cannot end until one side is entirely killed off. And most crucially they do not harm any side but instead benefit both.

But Lucerys fits into neither category. He was not there to negotiate a surrender, as here had not been any hostilities between Rhaenyra and the Baratheons by that point and the humanitarian option doesn‘t make sense either. So even if we _weren‘t_ explicitly told we could very much infer what his purpose was: he was there to secure/raise an army for his mother. To make sure Borros Baratheon fulfilled the oaths his father had sworn to Rhaenyra. That means he was there in a military capacity, (as was Aemond btw.) and was a valid military target according to the rules of war. That is not to say he wasn‘t „innocent“ war is not just but he was certainly a valid target.

To illustrate that point further. It is a warcrime to shoot a soldier who leaves throws down his weapons, raises his hands above his head, waves a white hankerchief in the absence of an actual white flag and shouts „I surrender“ (actually that declaration is enough) even if he killed dozens or even hundreds of your friends, comrades or even family members, you are not allowed to kill him at that point. But a truck carrying ammunition to the battlefield you are allowed to destroy and kill the driver of, even if said driver is a seventeen year old fresh out of college, who was forced into service and never hurt a single living thing.

If you want to make the point that war had not broken out, I would argue that by that point blood had already been drawn by Rhaenys at the Drageon pit and even if the outbreak of further hostilities could still have been averted, his Graces Council was justified in operating in warlike conditions.

If you want a real world example of a somewhat similar situation in our world I encourage you to check out the Trent Affair during the American Civil War where to Confederate Diplomats where taken prisoner by the Union Navy vessel USS San Jacinto. It nearly ended in war between the US and Great Britain and was only averted by the release of the Envoys. This site here provides actual insight into british grievances. Note the conspicuous absence of „a Diplomat was taken prisoner“ as a complaint. The main issue is, that they were captured aboard a british vessel and british neutrality was therefor not sufficiently respected.

U.S. Naval Institute

The Trent Affair and its Implications

How the U.S. Navy seizure of a vessel carrying Confederate emissaries to Britain caused an international stir.

Regardless of our difference in opinion regarding the works of G.R.R.Martin and their HBO Adaptations, I hope you have a most pleasant day or night.

Best wishes.

Calling an envoy, a soldier and a threat, is quite literally the dumbest thing you can say. They are basically postmen with diplomatic immunity. It really sums up the extent of intelligence I have come to expect from team green fans. Lucerys was innocent and he will keep being it, murdering him was a war crime + king slaying being a taboo.

You can take your stupid posts somewhere else. Him saying "I will not fight you" isn't a joke, he is representative of borros's enemy and his only Job is to take a letter and bring back an answer, if he joins in fighting he starts a war.....like aemond did.

I might be having a brainfart here, but should Luke have been protected in the first place?

Parlamentarians, bearing some sort of white flag are protected but they tend to come in two flavours

1. to negotiate an immediate end to hostilities (usually involving the surrender of either party)

2. to negotiate for humanitarian measures (e.g. To evacuate the wounded or recover the dead)

But Luke‘s mission wasn‘t that. He left with the clear intention to return with an army for his mother to use. Either as additional bargaining weight or in war. He served the exact same strategic purpose as the ravens the Lannister host sent to Harrenhal durig the Battle by the Lakeshore, all of which were shot down by the Riverlanders without it being treated as anything particularly despicable.

Luke was and should have been protected by Guestright and the status of Storms End as neutral territory. But when he left, Aemond should have been well within his rights to engage him as an enemy combattant, because realistically that‘s what he was.

I am not saying Aemond should‘ve killed the little guy, but he would have been well within his rights to take him prisoner.

I might be completely wrong about this, but this thought just occured to me.

HotD Episode 10 reaction under the cut.

(These aren’t my initial ones since I forgot to do my initial comments, but yeah. I’ve also added the “boundless watches HotD” tag. I will be using that for season 2 block that and “boundless watches” if you don’t want my future opinions or to be spoiled!)

Rhaenyra you did nothing to earn it.

You are not perfect and your dad did diddly squat to prepare you.

Rhaenys… baby… you did start this war. What about all those people you killed?

Daemon did not look like he liked being called Prince

And Jace being a bad brother, knocking Luke down and being forceful. Brother of the year. Even Aegon didn’t push Aemond down. Actually the only time we saw Aegon and Aemond actively fight was when Aegon was trying to leave King’s Landing.

Really do think they are going to play up hot headed Jace the coming season.

I actually wouldn’t be surprised if they had him man handle Baela in season 2 in his anger and frustration, mimicking his grandfather and Daemon. Like I don’t mean he’ll be as physical as Viserys or Daemon, I just mean he would act roughly.

And man… Rhaenyra refusing feminine help while delivering her baby… causing the death of her daughter. Carrying on the cycle her father started. Quite literally ripping the baby from her body and then mourning the child because she would not accept help. Her maids (or whatever they are meant to signify) were begging to help.

Also, people complaining about the Greens making a “show” of Jaehaerys’ death as though the Blacks did not do the same for baby Visenya’s. Gathering all who were there to the funeral and then having Rhaenyra crowned at her own child’s funeral. Like??? Not the time

Also, the Black Kingsguard twin bowing and doing his vow looking up at Daemon rather than at Rhaenyra’s feet.

Rhaenys, you chose a side as soon as you fled. Bend the freaking knee

Is Rhaenyra supposed to be queen of the Rhoynar yet? Isn’t that Dorne?

Lady, why isn’t your heir your cupbearer?? Or at least your husband’s betrothed? The supposed next queen?

Lady, House Baratheon has wanted someone of their blood on the throne for ages and there is no Baratheon blood in your boys, Rhaenyra. Stop pretending they do because that is what actively put Luke in danger later.

RHAENYRA YOU JUST HAD A TRAUMATIC MISCARRIAGE!!!!! WHY ARE YOU ON FREAKING DRAGONBACK?!?!?!? You were in so much pain with Joffrey, and could barely walk?!?!?!?

All of Rhaenyra’s kids are given good options and positions if they had accepted Aegon’s terms.

What would the Green kids have gotten had Rhaenyra been made queen? What positions? What holdings?

Rhaenyra… sweetie… why do you think Otto owes you any loyalty? You made him lose his job when you lied to your father, who knew full well you lied.

And that stupid page was pointless.

Why not have Alicent write a letter??? Or go herself????

Also??? Why didn’t Rhaenyra offer any terms in return for the Greens to contemplate?

Rhaenys, why are you still there? Like you are doing nothing

Why is Rhaenyra shocked that Daemon doesn’t know? Daemon was only informally the heir? Viserys wouldn’t have shared the dream with Daemon because he was actively trying for a son.

And the stupid abuse plot that will no doubt be used to make it so Rhaenyra does not have to be held accountable for her actions. “Oh, she’s being abused so she can’t publically condemn Daemon’s actions”

It actually would have made more sense if Alicent had written a letter saying Viserys had shared his dreams with Alicent and said that Aegon must carry on his dream. That would have made more sense for why Rhaenyra was being hesitant because she might think that Viserys shared Aegon’s dream with Alicent as well as the SoIaF, and with Daemon not knowing, would have given Rhaenyra pause on staking her claim to the throne. Then, her going to war after Luke, would have made it more of her active choice against what she believes her father would have wanted. It would have been a good dilemma or her end.

Corlys… you have been passed out, how did you know Viserys died but not that your brother died?

Corlys, you should now be thinking Daemon is the reason your daughter is dead, your son was murdered, as was your brother. Like???

And Corlys? Even if you wanted to stay neutral, Daemon sure as heck would not allow you to.

Jace, Luke, and Joffrey were given the chance of being heir to both Driftmark and Dragonstone. They wouldn’t be left with nothing, nor would they seemingly be placed in any danger. I would argue Aegon the Younger and Viserys would be the one with some danger as they would have been at the Red Keep. “Aegon” offered that. They would have lived, your grandchildren would have been fine.

Yeah. Where is Daemon?

They swore oaths when it was either you or Daemon. Your father should have had them all rewear to you after his son was born and survived.

Love that the only people not allowed to have revenge is House Velaryon, the racially Black house.

AND AGAIN, RHAENYS ALREADY PARTICIPATED IN AN ACT OF AGGRESSION!

I love how they are only focusing on House Hightower, as though the entire Reach is not really freaking important too.

Why does Baela not go with Luke? She has actual Baratheon blood? Why does Baela not go at all?

Jace is like “we have dragons” but only Jace and Luke are sent? What about Baela?!? She can apparently ride and fight on dragonback next season!

Rhaenyra? Why are you having them swear to the Seven? Those oaths mean nothing since they don’t seem to hold to that Faith! And besides! Jace is going North! Where they hold to the Old Gods anyway!

Also, why the heck does Rhaenys not go????????? She’s more closely related to the Baratheons even if Luke was related to them!

“He’ll be honored to host the Prince of the realm” when have you ever spent any time playing up the Baratheon connection? Borros’ daughters could have served as companions to Baela and Rhaena! Borros’ heir would have been a girl seemingly and you could have offered to foster her as a female heir yourself Rhaenyra.

I feel like it would have made more sense for Daemon to have taken Rhaena to see if she could claim a dragon rather than him stupidly singing for a reason we are just not given in the show.

Luke, why would you not leave as soon as you saw Vhagar?????

Like, you KNOW Aemond has a beef with you and the only reason there was no retaliation is because someone else was there to stick up for you

Also… you just had a letter. You could have had it passed on and then left!

Also… the fact that Rhaenyra and Rhaenys are seemingly unaware that Borros can’t read is astounding.

“I will not fight you.” If I were Aemond, I would have said “why, because you do not have three to help you fight me?”

Luke hasn’t even flown in battle and I assume he hasn’t flown in a storm either. Like? Why not request time to stay and talk things out? Hear more of a possible offer? Hold him hostage for the king you now apparently serve? That would have been the smart thing to do

Also, Luke drew his sword, so does that not mean he’s no longer bound to be protected as a messenger?

While Arrax did so without Luke’s command, once more, it is the Blacks that incite the first physical act of violence. Rhaena or Baela punching Aemond first. Jace punching Aemond first when he didn’t like what Aemond was saying. Rhaenys escaping on dragonback instead of just fleeing and killing multiple people in the process. Arrax breathing fire on Vhagar.

And love (*sarcastic*) how the Greens are made to feel bad when they retaliate to aggression they did not necessarily start (although Aemond is fully at fault for being the one to set out after Luke and Arrax)

Great final shot of Rhaenyra? But I honestly don’t feel like it was a strong end to the season.

Bonus for next season:

I hate the whole “eye for an eye; a son for a son” thing because there was never an eye for an eye.

I just feel bad for the Green Kids. Viserys showed he cared far more about Rhaenyra than he does them. Aemond literally gets his Eye slashed and Viserys is more concerned with the rumors of the Strong boys lineage (rumors that are largely as result Rhaenyra’s actions). And he’s just supposed to get over it according to Team Black. Aegon clearly has self worth problems, likely in part to Viserys’ blatant favoritism. And poor Helaena just wants it all over with. And Team Black wants them to just…ignore it all and blindly follow Rhaenyra.

Sorry for the rant, but some of the attitudes from the Fandom give me the creeps.

Honestly, it feels like the problem is that a lot of the HOTD fandom can only see things through Rhaenyra’s POV, and as a result everyone else’s POV or opinions are considered as an afterthought at best.

The Greens are just supposed to accept and love her. Criston is just supposed to accept being her loyal dog and let her use him as she pleases. The Lords of the realm are just supposed to ignore her obvious flaws and shortcomings, it goes on and on. Everyone’s supposed to take her crap with a smile because she’s such a girlboss qween.

THIS.

her stans just can't acknowledge the fact that rhaenyra has done shitty things & people that she hurt has the right to hate her. criston is a great example. rhaenyra coerced him & treated him horribly after. he was genuinely hurt by her. his anger does not justify him killing another man, but he has the right to hate rhaenyra for what she did it him. but for some reason, he's branded as this women-hating incel who's just bitter. completely ignoring the fact that criston was very loyal to rhaenyra and her claim until ep 4, and that hating rhaenyra doesn't equal to hating all women.

not supporting rhaenyra = evil characters that deserves to be punished by the narrative -[ especially if they're women. ]

like alicent has a lot of reason for wanting her son on the throne, but rhaenyra stans just make it all about alicent's jealousy and hatred towards rhaenyra - completely ignoring that the main reason that alicent wants aegon on the throne is to protect her children's lives.

It’s actually not funny that Viserys neglected his children with Alicent and it doesn’t make him look better, it actually makes him look worse

Like what kind of asshole cuts open his wife for a son without even telling her what’s going on, then marries his daughters best friend, to then neglect the children that he forces her to have

rhaenyra placed a bounty on maelor's head, causing his death. which then caused helaena to commit suicide. maelor and hel's death are 100% on rhaenyra. how convenient for her that maelor was cut from the show.

“All the men in the show don’t have to worry about where they put their hands because they’re constantly holding the pommel of their sword. That obviously sounds like innuendo and you can do with that what you will but that is true. And all the rest of us are going, “Where do we put our f—king hands?”

Anyway, next year one hand is going to be taken care of. That’s what I want. I want a sword and I’ve been really clear about that with Ryan and I think that’s happening.”

(posted by the westerosies account on twitter)

Apparently that's was Emma's request which tells me exactly how much bullshit the entire cast has been fed by these writers lol. And it's not even a valid reason?!? Like, you're changing the character even more than you already have just because an actor doesn't know where to...put their...hands??? I can hear the circus music playing🤡

God forbid you lean on a chair or twist your rings! I mean it's not that bad but a sword isn't something to just give a character out of no where. Like I could think of several things she could carry or play with instead, rings, necklaces, dagger, but not a sword when she isn't trained!

The way the show runners and TB stans (specifically Rhaenyra stans) want me to sympathize with Rhaenyra when she is rude, spoiled, has made no sacrifices besides that of her own people, and is THE definition of a Nepo baby, is wild when you add in the fact they want me to hate Alicent. You know Alicent, the girl who was forced into a marriage against her will, a girl who was a victim of marital rape, the girl who by the age of 20 was raising all FOUR of her children while Rhaenyra was pregnant with her FIRST?

Yeah it doesn't make sense to me either. Cause out of those two options I will always sympathize with a character like Alicent before a "strong female character". I couldn't care less that she was "usurped". I don't care for the people who say she obviously wouldn't hurt her siblings, cause we never got one scene of her giving Alicent or her siblings a reason to believe she wouldn't harm them. She not on e said anything to anyone else that she wouldn't want to harm her siblings before the dance, so if I was Alicent and told that she would kill my children by all these people I trust, than why should I not trust them when the person they are telling me will do it isn't saying anything to change my mind.

Needless to say I will always sympathize with these Alicents

Before I EVER sympathize with either of these Rhaenyra's

And no one will change my mind.

For all TB fans saying "Rhaenyra wouldn't kill children." Your legit wrong.

She didn't care that Jaehaerys died in the books only that it made her look bad, and she felt bad for Helaena nothing else. She put a price on Jaehaera and Maelors heads, yes a 6 and 2 year old were sentenced to die cause she didn't want any chance of her losing the throne. When people did find Maelor they cut him in pieces and handed him piece by piece to Rhaenyra and she paid them for their "work".

Also she's not the feminist you think she is, she legit would tell woman asking if they could inherit there families seats "a son comes before a daughter." So why the hell should Rhaenyra be any different? Why does she get the throne if a son comes before a daughter?

You all really hold her on this pedestal that isn't even hers, she's not a Child loving kind queen, she's not a feminist girl boss queen. She's a cruel queen, so much so she was called "Rhaenyra the Cruel." And "Maegor with teats." You know how much bad and cruel shit you got to do to be called those things? Too much for you TBs to be comfortable with.

Alicole banging at the start of season 2?

Am I dreaming? (If I am, don't wake me up.)

Jokes aside, I am reaaally happy about this. Our girl Alicent deserves some joy in her life, especially knowing what is about to happen.

Though I do pray that whatever goes on between them occurs after b&c, or at the very least, not during it.

The last thing I want to see is Ali being horrendously punished for thinking about herself for the first time. Also, you know, Alicole, Alicent and Criston antis would have a field day, hating on them for getting it on as Helaena and her kids suffered.

(As if their beloved blacks weren't responsible for this tragedy in the first place but whatever.)

We should also take into account the fact that Alicole acting on their feelings after b&c would add a lot more meaning to their relationship in general.

Two souls broken by grief, finding comfort in one another by completely forgetting about their duties and positions after years of repressing what they felt.

I'm all for it

I swear to God, if we get a repeat of 1x09 where a teenage Jaehaera questions if Aegon loves her (especially if it's right before his death), I will be doing something dangerous.

The show is not smart enough to do this, but they should. They should have Aegon mourning Jaehaerys intensely and Jaehaera perhaps losing the relationship she used to have with him. So at the end, right before he dies, Jaehaera says that she's sorry she's not Jaehaerys and questions Aegon's love for her, and he whispers, "You imbecile."

Something striking about the relationship between Rhaenyra and Alicent that the show tries to awkwardly scoot past is that time and time again, Alicent sacrifices her own interests and desires for Rhaenyra's benefit, while Rhaenyra never does the reverse. Alicent teaches Rhaenyra history, dresses and crowns her for her investment ceremony, comforts her after her mother's death, advises Viserys *against* naming Aegon heir, supports reconciliation between Rhaenyra and Viserys that ultimately gets her father and sole supporter fired, seriously considers switching sides to her despite the severe risk to her own children, and goes against her father to try and save her life. The most Rhaenyra gives Alicent is a few hollow words of praise in episode 8.

Though the show doesn't seem to realize it, their relationship isn't one of equals, but of master and servant. Otto and Alicent are parallels in this sense - both are in a sense, servants of the Targaryens who do not wish to merely serve. But the show buys into the expectation of their service and Targaryen masterdom uncritically: the great crime of Otto and Alicent is their attempt to subvert the natural order of things rather than meekly serving their Targaryen masters. It's why Alicent is most sympathetic when she is loyal to Rhaenyra, but the reverse isn't true, because why would Rhaenyra be expected to do anything for a mere servant like Alicent?

Which really just goes to show the big class blind spot the show has. By presenting "goodness" as solely a function of how closely one can follow Viserys' orders, they're regurgitating one aspect of medieval social customs to oppose another. With this context, Rhaenyra and Alicent's relationship feels less healthy and a lot more like a premonition of Alicent's relationship to Viserys, with similar power imbalances. Rhaenyra and Alicent love each other, but Rhaenyra sees Alicent as a sidekick at best, doesn't take her seriously as someone with her own inner life and desires, and is sensitive to Alicent's perceived disobedience ("questioning my virtue is an act of treason.")

I think it also gives context to Criston and Alicent's relationship, given that Criston is *also* relatively low nobility, and a servant to the Targaryens, who feels taken advantage of by them, and whose great crime is trying to be something other than a servant, to *make* kings, not just to serve them.

Next season Aemond needs to simply pull a Rhaenyra ✨ and ✨gaslight ✨ everyone about not killing Lucerys - Everyone knows and yet he just goes on about these ✨false and treasonous accusations ✨

And my knees bend once more

In the show, I kind of wish that there were more moments between the greens being a happy family.

I agree wholeheartedly.

The greens weren't really given lots of wholesome family moments, which is something I could forgive, if they didn't have pretty shitty scenes that really did not need to be there instead.

Like the creepy Larys feet scene.

Like come on we could've had some moments between the green siblings! Aegon and Aemond interact, but I've practically never heard either of them talk to Helaena!

And maybe they could've fleshed out the Helaegon kids, especially knowing what's coming at the start of season 2.

How much do you wanna bet that Helaena won't get any screentime with her babies before blood and cheese?

On one hand, you don't really need to know a child character to feel bad for their death, butttt, it would hit so much harder if we actually allowed Aegon's kids to be characters, instead of just offspring in the background.

(I have to be honest, the twins got so little screentime that I'm pretty sure casual viewers have forgotten Aegon and Helaena even have children).

If you had the chance to change something about the dance of the dragons (TV show or book), what would it be? For example, how a character dies, which team a house is on,or an entire character personally. How would you change it to make the story better, in your opinion?♥️🖤💙💚

Ohh anon i've got a list.

When it comes to the tv show there are a few choices the writers made that just don't sit right with me.

Laenor

I do like the characterization they went for, he's a pretty cool dude who really loves his weird, dysfunctional family. What I really don't like is how they handled his death.

See I truly can't stand it when a character is sugar coated just because they're the protagonist and thus must be righteous and always objectively correct.

So to witness the writers white wash his murder, having him flee to essos instead of being killed by Rhaenyra pisses me off. I get that after showing them being good friends it would be very odd to have her kill him.

But that's the thing, they should have opted for a more ruthless Rhaenyra in the first place!

Laenor's death in the books (at least for me) was the first instance of Rhae Rhae making morally wrong choices in order to pursue her ultimate goal. It was compelling! Here she just takes the easy way out, without having to make a tough choice.

Also his survival really fucks her up when you really think about it. Now all her sons are bastards since her marriage to Daemon isn't valid, and for the upcoming season 2, how are they going to handle Addam and Seasmoke? Laenor is still alive, his dragon won't accept a new rider. This doesn't make any sense and just causes plotholes what the actual fu-

Sidenote: After Laenor's very moving speech on how he was done goofing off and was now willing to really step up for Rhaenyra and their family it's super strange to imagine him ditching them all immediately afterwards Lol.

Rhaenys

My gosh, where do I even begin with this woman?

She too is pretty cool at the start, but then episode 9 rolls around and I roll my eyes.

She's so hypocritical. She tries to shit on Alicent for "toiling in the service of men." When that's all she does in the goddamn story!

She wants Baela to get Driftmark, tells Corlys about it, he shuts off the whole plan cause he wants a kid who he's not even related to on the driftwood throne, and when she complains about it he dismisses her.

So what does feminist Rhaenys do about it?

She... submits to her husband, something she conveniently forgets about when talking to Alicent. My god. Just remove this entire exchange, it hurts to watch.

And the coronation scene, Jesus Christ! It was so cool in the books, why did they have to ruin it? Had they replaced it with something better I wouldn't have complained, but this is just, the worst.

Rhaenys shows how badass she is by.... Brutally crushing hundreds of small folks to death and almost slaughtering the greens.

Cool, cool, absolutely necessary. Thanks Sara.

And you know what's even more infuriating? When she flees to Dragonstone to inform Rhaenyra of all that happened. She says she didn't kill the greens cause she didn't wish to start a war. I'm sorry what?

That would have ended the war at the start! As glad as I am that Rhaenys didn't barbecue them it makes absolutely no sense!

If she had killed them there would have been no dance in the first place!

I hate these dumb show only moments. They needlessly complicated an already complicated story and just mess everything up.

There's probably other stuff I could rant on, like how Aegon was made a rapist sorely to make the audience think:

Oh look! The greens are so baad, they believe a rapist alcoholic douche should be in charge instead of our empowered dragon queen, they sure do suck!

Or how house Velaryon was disrespected and mistreated by D*emyra but still somehow decided to support Nyra's claim.

They didn't really have a motive to be greens though, so I think they should have stayed neutral. Their fervent black support makes no sense.

The writers really should have given them more reasons to back up the blacks or had their beloved queen treat them better so that their loyalty made more sense ( I mean holy hell I wonder how they will handle the two betrayers and Corlys's arrest lmao).

But other greens have already shat on these awful decisions and I won't beat a dead horse.

Book

When it comes to fire and blood I surprisingly have very little complaints, except of course, the Jaehaera situation.

My poor baby deserved better, I've made a post about it in the past

(where I ranted and said stuff I kind of regret now, don't post while very angry guys I don't recommend it)

tackling how the little queen was unnecessarily killed off and how her death genuinely adds nothing so why was it added? God I get upset just thinking about it lol.

Some people say George did it cause he needed Aegon's kids to be born after Viserys's, and apparently he couldn't fathom a married teen not having kids until her 20s, which is veery weird.

The more plausible theory is that he got rid of her cause he wanted more Velaryon queens to showcase how close they used to be to the Targs.

Which is something I had understood already thanks to Alyssa, the sea Snake and all the Velaryons who were masters of ships but whatever.

"and Helaena, my sweet girl"

Sometimes I wish that I could freeze the picture

And save it from the funny tricks of time

(requested by @lawolfe)

Very well said, this whole blood purity thing is getting out of hand

why you always pretend to not understand what people are telling you in order to flip everything to your liking? 😭 Viserys has valyrian blood because he is a targaryen, and the only two other house with the same blood is velaryon and celtigar. Alicent's blood descended from the Andals, which is shared with most of the houses of Westeros apart from those three exceptions mentioned. The Valarian minority makes their blood more valuable. If alicent had she been to Valyria, thw situation would have been the same (her having andal blood wound have made her more valuable since she would have been surrounded by valyrian blood). So yes, alicent’s blood is not comparable as viserys as it show in hotd intro, and this isn't necessarily a bad thing like you interpreted

visenya Targaryen married maegor to a hightower. the hightowers are an old and respected house, that has married into the royal family prior to viserys and alicent's marrige.

F&B about the marriage :

"The Hightowers of Oldtown were an ancient and noble family, of impeccable lineage; there could be no possible objection to the king’s choice of bride."

"there could be no possible objection to the king's choice of bride".

prince aemon - jaehaerys's heir, married a baratheon. rhaenys is also half valyrian. but i don't see anyone talking about that.

you only care that alicent married viserys because you hate her. you only care about the targtowers being half targs because you hate them.

viserys originally planned to marry rhaenyra to a lannister. a non-valyrian. the idea that targs only marry valyrians is ridicules and so out of touch with show and book canon.

no anon, i'm not flipping anything to my liking. you sent me that bs post, didn't get the response you wanted and got mad. sorry, i'm just not into the whole "valyrian blood is superior" thing.

Viserys : I want Rhaenyra to succeed me as queen as she's my eldest living child. If anyone dares to object my decision they'll be charged with treason!

Also Viserys: *Marries another woman and has sons by her who could have a better claim that Rhae's for the Lords. Doesn't legally change the law of succession to absolute primogeniture, thus treating Rhaenyra's status as heir like a one time exception. Doesn't do anything to prevent her from having bastards so her position is even shakier than before. Doesn't teach her how to rule properly and allowes her to do as she pleases. Appoints Otto Hightower as hand even though he's known for being a schemer and generally a shady guy who obviously favors his grandson for the throne. Lets her marry her unstable uncle who's the reason he named her heir in the first place*

Half of Westeros: *understandably doesn't accept her and supports her brother instead, thus starting a devastating civil war*

Viserys from the seven hells:

Okay fuck it I'm done.

Remember that little rant I had a while ago about Jaehaera? And how she was just a little girl that deserved so much better?

Well today I saw this

And now there's an even bigger rant incoming.

I'm just flabbergasted, I don't know what to say except are you really this petty?

This person on Twitter commissioned a wonderful portrait of Aegon III's family, which looks great, I really have nothing against the artist, he was just doing his job.

Buut, as that user says

"Note a certain Doll tossed aside on the left next to Aegon😏"

So yes, a team black stan was so mad at the mere suggestion that Daenaera would be cut from the ending of hotd that they commissioned a well known Asoiaf/f&b artist to draw Aegon's family with a little doll to remind us that Jaehaera is dead and thus no longer in the way.

I just have to say...

What is wrong with you? Seriously, I admit I've spent some money on hotd/asoiaf related things out of passion for the story, but I've never gotten to the point of commissioning art to spite people in the fandom that have an opinion I don't agree with.

Also, alright, you don't like the greens, that's fine! We all have our own tastes. But this? It's just sick. Wanting a fictional, traumatized 10 year old girl to be dead so badly you pay people to remind everyone that she's gone is on another level. Cause I firmly believe this was drawn only for that reason,not to actually show a wholesome family portrait.

I'm so done with these people. Do they ever go outside of their mom's basements? Have they ever touched grass? I don't think so, otherwise they'd spend their money for better things than celebrating a child's death.

This is the kind of team black person who will happily watch blood and Cheese happen and cheer when Jaehaeys is decapitated.

The sheer toxicity of this fandom is unbelievable. I genuinely haven't seen this amount of pettyness since the days before the aot ending.

Get a life, seriously.

P.s

I got this image from the r/hotdgreens sub on Reddit.

Team black stans be like:

Nyra's bloodline continued, the nasty usurpers all died out like they deserved! Our Queen's legacy lived on, WE are the true winners!

When by the end of the dance all the blacks have left is one very traumatized boy king that lost everyone he loved in the span of two years and is terrified of his own house's symbol.

Don't get me wrong, I love Aegon III, he and Vizzy II are actually my favourite targ kings (which is quite ironic knowing how much I dislike their parents)

but seeing how all major targ team black members were massacred by the end of the war (Rhaenyra, Rhaenys, Daemon, the strong Boys, Nettles who just vanishes, and all their dragons dead) you have to be kinda delusional to look at all that devastation and go:

The whole point of this conflict is to showcase how destructive and useless these type of wars are, but apparently all the blacks care about is the fact that the kid who sat the iron throne at the end of it was Nyra's son.

They want helaena to go to more rapists ? Rhae*yra da*mon Dalton are rapists rhaenyra would litreally kill her kids and give her away to Dalton for sure or any man with lower statue

Rh*enyra stans need to wake up and admit their queen is the queen of rapists since she is allied with one and allowed one and raped criston

Yeah I really don't get this odd belief that everything horrible that happened to Helaena could have been prevented if only she had gone with Nyra wtf? My girl already has to suffer through her loveless marriage with Aegon, she really doesn't need to risk her children's lives for a sister that wouldn't bat an eye at her death.

Personally I'm not sure if the brothel queens plan was seriously considered or just a cruel rumor. In spite of all the beef I have with Rhaenyra I don't really see her as someone who could do such a thing to Hel.

Don't get me wrong she's pretty awful in her own way, but I don't believe she's the kind of person who would torture someone like this.

Especially if by going to her Hel has practically given her a massive advantage.

In case Helaena actually betrayed her family for Nyra I think she would have preferred to keep her as a hostage with Jaehaera against the greens. It would make a lot more sense.

Maelor and Jaehaerys would be killed regardless though.

According to fire and blood the one who actually proposed the disgusting plan was Mysaria, to get back at Alicent for calling the strong boys bastards.

Honestly the tale is already hard to believe cause it was told by mushroom, but knowing that Mysaria was also behind blood and Cheese does make more credible.

Lmao she and Daemon really belonged to one another.

Regarding the queen of rapists thing... I doubt she allied with Dalton because of the heinous way he treated his salt wives. She asked him to join her side simply because she didn't want the iron fleet against her and knew that the young Lord would loove to raid the Green Westerlands and sack Lannisport. It was a coincidence that she ended up with some very morally dubious people on her side (except the Starks).

Also I've always considered her relationship with Criston sexual coercion rather that outright rape. It's pretty close to being rape but still not the same thing.

Guuys do you have any good Alicent centric fics to recommend? I would appreciate even some Alicole ones if you have em.

Soo today I made the terrible mistake to look for hotd art on pinterest, and came across a... particular comment that genuinely led me to question my faith in humanity.

Oh boy

Where do I even begin with this?

I thought team black was at least cool with Hel cause she's literally the most innocent character in the show (except for the kids obviously) but apparently some blacks have beef with her too now.

Cool, just great.

Haelena had the opportunity to go with her kids to Nyra.

I'm sorry but why? Why would she want to betray her family, her actual family? Rhaenyra never gave a flying fuck about her growing up, they have never even talked on screen! Why, why would she dump her siblings and her parents to join the cause of the woman who's side wants the people she loves killed? It makes no sense whatsoever. The blacks really don't understand that not everyone on Planetos loves Nyra like them and it shows.

Also if she really tried to betray her family for Nyra, I think Aegon, Ali and Aemond would have noticed Dreamfyre leaving King's Landing to go to Dragonstone and would have gone after her on Sunfyre and Vhagar.

And even if she somehow made it there, what do you think was going to happen? Rhaenyra was just going to welcome them with open arms as if she wasn't married to her "usurper"?

Best case scenario Nyra pretends to welcome them in and then Daemon sends his men to strangle Jaehaerys and Maelor as they sleep to get rid of Aegon's possible heirs.

I mean hell in the books Rhae put a fucking bounty on her 2 year old nephew's head that lead to his brutal death and they think she would just allow them to switch sides? Man these people really do not know how the game of thrones works.

She wanted to be queen

When? When has it ever been stated that Hel wants to be queen? When did we ever get a dialogue where she talked about how she couldn't wait for Aegon to inherit so she could replace her mom as queen?

Never

Haelena spends most of her time on screen making prophecies of the future, playing with bugs and dancing with Jace, when has her ambition for the crown been portrayed?

When have we seen any hint of her desire for power? Wtf

We're all dumb and sick bla bla...

Honestly after all this trash I've had to debunk being called names doesn't even phase me lmao. Go ahead, insulting others is always your last resort when you don't know how to admit that you're wrong.

We are blinded by the outside beauty of the characters and don't pay attention to who they really are

Ohhh the sweet sweet irony of this statement .

Team broccoli doesn't acknowledge their rapist usurper, their war criminal prince and their whore queen Alicunt! They're so nasty!

But Isn't Daemon suuper hot? God he is such an obedient malewife, Rhaenyra couldn't have chosen better! He's not a pedo guys I swear, the young silver haired virgins' ages were never confirmed, maybe they were at least eighteen! And he totally didn't pursue Nettles sexually, she was most likely his daughter!

What a joke

Guuys i'm back! And with the finest team black arguments in town! Today our contestant is:

"Alicent is an evil bitch for trying to expose Rhaenyra's sons as bastards, she could have gotten them killed!"

This one is surprisingly popular amongst the blacks, but unsurprisingly dumb. And I'll say why:

First things first, can someone explain to me the reason behind everyone's belief that the strong boys would be killed for this? They are just kids, who took no part in Rhaenyra's lies regarding their legitimacy. The poor children actually believed they were Laenor's sons! (Well except Jace but whatever.)

The real culprits in this mess are their parents, who willingly had them while being fully aware that if exposed on their bs they would be punished. The boys wouldn't be harmed at all, the worst thing that would happen to them would be losing the Velaryon family name, becoming Waters, and getting kicked off the line of succession.

Sucks for them but definitely better that a sword in the neck.

Speaking of their parents. Nyra would have to be disinherited for attempting to put her baseborns on the throne, cheating on her spouse and generally bringing so much shame to the royal family.

Sucks for her too, but you know, reap what you sow girl. You knew the risks.

The one who would actually face serious consequences would be Harwin, for sleeping with the princess and all. Normally he would probably have to be executed, but not before being given the chance to take the black, which he would definitely pick.

So yeah, sucks for you sure, but you keep your head, your dick, and only lose your inheritance. Lmao on second thought this would be a better alternative for him, Larys wouldn't have to kill him to inherit, and he'd be freezing his ass on the wall instead of burning it in Harrenhall.

Happy ending for Lord Strong.

And with that said Alicent would not be causing the deaths of innocent kids and would be able to secure the future reign of her son, so why exactly would that make her an evil selfish bitch? When has trying to avoid your children's inevitable execution at the hands of their half sister been a bad thing?

Team black only really wants Ali to bend over and die, just so that their feminist queen can take over lol. They unironically demand a woman to give up all her agency for someone else, how progressive of them.

Funny how I made this long ass post explaining how Nyra would have to face the consequences of her actions for once in her life but obviously this would only happen in an au where Vizzy was an actual competent king who didn't just live to give his "only child" all that she asks him to.

In our timeline he would just keep denying their bastardry and cutting tongues of all who disagree. And if it became impossible for him to deny reality anymore, he would immediately pardon Nyra and Harwin and legitimize the Strongs, then promptly pretend that nothing happened. It would be infuriating, but also hilariously bad ngl.