I’m Re-reading Book 6.

Weibaybay

Hello there!

I saw the thread about topics within the book and one I had to ask about is what is this spicy take on the black water arc? Like now, I'm super curious and have to follow up on this!🤣😅

Veering sideways about the one on if Jun Wu did it or not. Xie Lian's parents being either killed or manipulated by Jun Wu to do so would track with him. Have you determined which stuff was probably him and which wasn't? It's honestly really terrifying to think how long he was terrorizing and ruining their lives until things unraveled with Xie Lian's third ascension.

And the three clowns one - what's that referring to?

TIA!🌸

Some of this is going to be tough to answer without going into full dissertation mode but I’m going to try to keep it brief and platform appropriate. I’ll save Blackwater for last haha you're tryna get me blacklisted

The thing that sold me on Xie Lians parents was the fact that they used his white silk band to do it, which is hugely symbolic and basically screams “It’s your fault.” First read through, I thought they did it because they were feeling as if they were a burden to Xie Lian. Since then though? No. That silk band was used by Xie Lian every single day, and he had to search for it. His parents were not so cruel. Then there's the amount of trauma that band would have had to endure to become sentient. A quiet acceptance of death by suicide doesn't fit the bill. 

I actually want to keep on that to further compound my thoughts, but I'm wont, because the point is; in finding out what Jun Wu may or may not have done, looking at out-of-character actions and what doesn't add up is best. Like Xie Lians sleeve getting caught on a cloud during his descent. The Spirits at Mt. Taicang that attacked Honghong'er. Mu Qing just so happened to show up at the blessed mountain when Xie Lian finally thought he was catching a break. Who killed Ming Yi? The friggen drought.

And yes, the clowns. MQ/FX. This ties into the prior: Why are they so unbearably acidic towards Xie Lian? Some past grievances, yes. But they are hostile, they think he's an idiot, and they're never there when Xie Lian needs them yet fight over who's the worse friend- not who is the better friend. It's not a bitter past, its more like their flames were stoked beyond reason. Then, time and time again, they deny any association with him in public, leaving him hanging. Are they just afraid of rumors? Mu Qing, maybe. But the noble and just beacon of righteousness, Feng Xin? Would watch his friend and former liege be humiliated and not say anything? 

And could I, in all confidence, after reading multiple mxtx works say "It's just because that one event upset them,” and leave it at that? 

And no, I have not verified all. Some have backup, some are speculation. It’s something I’d like to work on the next time I return to tgcf though. 

The Blackwater arc.. woof. Ok, bracing myself for incoming projectiles. 

In a nutshell, it's that Shi Wudu stole Shi Qingxuans fate of wealth and that's how he gained the title God of Wealth, contrary to popular belief. I could go full blown dissertation.. and actually I might, but first I'll just start with where I started:

Shi Qinxuan had a fate of wealth that was verified to not have been touched by Blackwater, nor consumed by the Reverend of Empty Words. So why was he a destitute beggar at the end? Not poor, not struggling, but a crippled, starving beggar. 0 wealth. None. Not a single coin.

The wealth he has as god was showered on him by Shi Wudu and most Shi Qingxuans temples were shared. I actually dont recall it saying he had his own temples at all (doesn’t mean it didn’t happen)

Then I asked myself "Why was 'wealth' used so many times in this tangled arc? Qingxuans fate, Wudu's domain, He Xuans windfall.." 

"Who benefitted the most?"

Then questions like "What was Shi Wudu's overprotectiveness really about? Mostly optics, right?" 

Because... what if someone found out..? His overprotectiveness really only flares up once the spiritual power is gone.. you could say it's all about safety but.. 

And so I read through carefully to either confirm or deny the hypothesis and regardless of how much no one wants to hear about it I'm firmly in the camp that this isn't a head-canon but possibly an intention. The timelines of Shi Qingxuan and He Xuan dont back the idea that the fate swap only happened at the last moment before ascension. Shi Wudu moved them to a home less than an hour away from He Xuans hometown before he even ascended. The power of the RoEW was not insurmountable. And just because Shi Qinxuan wasn’t “fated” to ascend doesn’t mean he couldn’t have, but Shi Wudu sure wasn’t going to wait to find out. 

Maybe it was greed, maybe it was a necessity in order to preform the fate ritual idk. But Shi Qinxuans fate is gonezo and neither the RoEW nor Blackwater laid claim to it. 

The saddest line in all of tgcf:

“It’s been so long since anyone listened to me talk. Won’t you stay? Don’t…don’t do this.”

God damn.. it punches me right in the gut. All these people around Xie Lian and only one person actually listens to him 😭

Ohhh. I see, you were talking about the initial accusation of why he got the shackle my bad. It gets so hard to unravel via conversation because things get tangled.

And are we off topic? I can’t tell cus when tgcf is the topic everything’s on the table for me 😂 no sah.

But really, I could go on a tailspin about tgcf and I have to stop myself. It’s just so incredibly fascinating! Things like..

The Entire Narrative is Propaganda: How Jun Wu used bureaucracy for control. He usurped the heavens centuries before anyone present ascended. He created the rules, the division of territories and the “divine laws” we thought were above him. Everything we knew was a lie.

Jun Wu, or Nah? A study on how many pies his fingers were actually in: what does he get blamed for that he didn’t do. What did he do that he doesn’t get blamed for? Part 1: Xie Lians parents were actually murdered, here’s why..

The astounding amount of foreshadowing and symbology in the God Pleasing Parade: 16 white horses and 16 named officials?! What does it mean?

“You are what they believe you are.” And how much that actually impacts their lives, relationships and abilities..(like some theories on why the Shi brothers relationship is pseudo-incestuous, cus I don’t think mxtx accidentally made them coded that way. No, I don’t think they’re actually incestuous. )

The Clown Show: but why are they really like that 800 years later? What could have happened?

Is Jun Wu the Missing Fire Master? The volcano and his seat of power.

And… some spicy takes on the Black Water arc that I usually keep to myself because they tend to ruffle feathers. 😅

All that to say, I totally relate to falling headfirst into this story and needing to untangle every thread. I really appreciate conversations like this, ones that don’t turn into arguments but actually let us question things and share interpretations. I made a Tumblr just to find alternative takes and dig into things with people who care as much as I do. So thank you— this has been such a pleasant and thought-provoking exchange. Doors always open.

Why do so many fans think Jun Wu has no control over who ascends? Like, yes.. people ascend without his permission because there really is a cosmic order in this universe but he literally only needs to fill the slot to prevent randos from ascending.

And YES he CAN artificially ascend people and he DOES. I’m fr about to write up a whole essay on ascension this weekend istg.

The man literally says:

“Even fates can be swapped. Why not spiritual power?” Jun Wu said. “There are many things that are hardly as difficult as you assume. It is only a matter of a few words and a few brush strokes from a few great heavenly officials.”

Right after he sucks out one homies spiritual power and injects it into another.

And let’s be real.. Do y’all really think Jun Wu actually ascended a second time using his own power?

The dude who has the suffering souls of his first attempt at human sacrifice plastered on his own face and.. screaming?

Hell nah. This dude became the grandmaster of demonic cultivation. He experimented on fetus spirits like some mad scientist interested in unethical stem cell research. He probs invented the damn fate swapping ritual himself.

He has an entire fucking Burial Mound volcano where he vents his resentful energy. You think all that energy is accumulating just cus he’s mad? Or from just the three faces?

No way fam. This man is actively cultivating the dark arts and probs needs so many followers just to help balance the yang to his yin.

I mean.. c’mon. You fr think Feng Xin and Mu Qing ascended back to back naturally? And just after they left Xie Lian? There’s a whole damn arc about how unusual it is for two people so close to ascend so fast and so young

Jun Wu gifts Feng Xin a bow called Fengshen which is a homophone for the name of an entire Chinese myth about appointing mortals to godhood for political reasons.

Blows my mind to see that so many collectively deny the possibility when the narration is screaming clues from every digital and physical page.

Yessss

He gave GODS a phobia of butterflies.

He jingles when he walks, like a literal fairy. He’s unapologetically, flamboyantly, gloriously extra. He’s a walking opera.

And I love him.

Listen, I love that Hua Cheng is revered as such a terrifying dude when this man is an 800-year-old virgin who named himself Flower, uses butterflies of all things to fight with, carries around an umbrella his crush gave him that one time, has his crush’s name tattooed on his damn arm, and made rain an important part of his character all because it was so Pivotal to Xie Lian’s downfall and rebirth. He gave no fucks. He’s in love with his gege, and everyone should know it.

Since the shackles were man-made and not part of heaven.. then Xie Lian didn’t ascend 3 times, he went through 3 heavenly tribulations.

And he did the last one in his sleep and had the nerve to describe it as “having weird dreams.”

Legendary.

I don't mind at all!

From my understanding, the word "ascend" is only used for the first heavenly tribulation. Ascend is step 1. After that you have your "2nd tribulation" or your "3rd" etc. So when they say "He ascended again?!" in reference to Xie Lian, they are not thinking "He's had a third tribulation?" because that means something else. The tribulations following ascension bring more power once passed. The ascension (basically) just opens the doors to heaven and welcomes you to a new power source.

And this is perf because we have the receipts now:

"For example, a heavenly official who managed horses was likely quite comfortable in their position. People always needed reliable transportation, and they couldn’t very well leave the condition of their horses and carriages to the whims of fate; who wouldn’t want their horses to be strong and healthy, and their travels safe? Thus, this sort of heavenly official would always see regular devotion. "However, what if one day mortals discovered something completely novel that ran faster than a horse? When this new invention inevitably overtook horses, worshippers of the heavenly official who presided over horses would decrease in turn. Heavenly officials such as these made up most of the heavens, blinking to life and flashing by like shooting stars. "This was the cruelest way gods declined because the process could not be reversed. A heavenly official in that situation was destined to watch their own decline until they disappeared entirely—unless they jumped down from the heavens, returned to being mortal, re-cultivated a new path, and then ascended once more as a brand-new god. Not everyone possessed the courage and fortune to do something like that."

Vol.5 Ch.79 7s

I really feel like this is pretty cut and dry in terms of explaining what happens to gods who have 0 believers left. They will die if they don't figure out a way to ascend again. And when they do, it will be their new first ascension.

What I love that you brought into the discussion is the reincarnation. That is a part of tgcf I hadn't paid much attention to and how it ties in. I'll be looking out for it

Editing: oh shoot I totally forgot to address MNQ. That's a loaded topic, but to keep it short, MNQ is "other" and he honestly sketches me out. He is the Birth of Old Age, Sickness, and Death. I have my own theories on that but this isn't the place lmaoo. (His pals are stuck on Jun Wu's face yet their bodies still became independent, sentient, mountain spirits. That's some next level shit.)

Since the shackles were man-made and not part of heaven.. then Xie Lian didn’t ascend 3 times, he went through 3 heavenly tribulations.

And he did the last one in his sleep and had the nerve to describe it as “having weird dreams.”

Legendary.

I honestly pictured it as a more chaotic fandom of Yizhen Gege worshippers, meatheads who love fights and drama, all claiming to have “been there when he descended” and “seen it with their own eyes” telling stories about how “lit it was” when Yizhen Gege threw Paul Jr through the local tavern for calling Yin Yu a bxtch. (Since Paul Jr was annoying and had it coming) and they’re gunna go light some incense rn and ask Yizhen Gege to come beat up Big Bern too since he doesn’t keep his chickens in the coop and lets them poop all over Greta’s flower bed.

But I can also respect a much more distinguished vision of dedicated practitioners who live to learn and treat his violent visitations as an opportunity for growth. Love it.

The fact that Quan Yizhen regularly descended just to beat up his own worshippers, and this only resulted in gaining a larger following… is probably the most realistic thing in this whole high fantasy series.

The correct answer is: Time is a construct. Pain is eternal.

There are many clues that suggest this is year 1, such as his first wake up scene where he’s surprised he has the shackle, the fact that he’d only had one incident of forgetting to eat which suggests he’s still freshly mortal, the displaced citizens. Then the more telling events like it being the first Zhongyuan to pass Xie Lian without him noticing. (Maybe he’d just been doing good with eating for a couple years and suddenly slipped, maybe the nightmare was so disorienting he forgot he has a shackle, maybe nobody was celebrating Zhongyuan during the wars aftermath.)

Conversely, there are things like the day his parents die is the day Yong’an completes construction of their palace in Yong’an (did they start building before Xianle fell? Or are they construction wizards? Or was it just remodeling?) and the fact that Lang Ying has a seriously progressed case of Human Face Disease. (Although there might be a time skip between the palace being built and the Xie Lian attacking)

And the fact that it says “a few years ago when Xianle fell” during the interaction with white no-face on the mountain (but define “fall” was it when the gates were sieged, was it the pagoda, the disease, or when the last soldier died on the battlefield?”

All this to say. Fuck it, I don’t care anymore.

Also, thank you @quetzalpapalotl for helping me sort through this

Why is it common knowledge that the flashbacks in Volume 6 (7s) take place starting 4+ years after the fall of Xianle? As in, they’ve been on the run for 4+ years. I can’t find anything to support this in the text, and there’s a lot of context clues that suggest it hasn’t even been a full year.

Please point me in the right direction to confirm this.

Is that timeline fanon or canon?

I fr just wanted to stop responding cus this obv isn’t going anywhere, it’s pointless, we don’t see eye to eye, agree to disagree blah blah but there’s one part in particular I can’t let go because I’m wheeeezing

Are you aware that Mu Qing and Feng Xin were so desired in heaven, since they are both pretty competent ? In fact, Mu Qing easily found another master.

😂😂

Was this ironic? Do you realize.. what you’re saying? Their new master.. the system that desired them.. ok I’m done lmao you just made my point for me

“How could we? People made statues of him kneeling solely for the purpose of stepping on him!” Feng Xin said. “You’re not the one whose face is being stepped on, so of course you can dismiss it.”

“It’s not the first time that something like this has happened since the war was lost,” Mu Qing said. “And it surely won’t be the last. If he can’t get used to it soon, he might as well just die.”

This. Coming from the guy who literally appears in people’s dreams if he doesn’t think his statues are pretty enough..