Aerith & Marlene: A Special Bond

Today's lucky lady is the big-boned girl!

FFVII Remake Easter Eggs and compilation continuity - Part 4: DIRGE OF CERBERUS

[Includes: DoC Online Multiplayer - DoC - DoC Lost Episode]

SHINRA’S DARKEST SECRET

In Chapter 3, Weimar tells Cloud and Tifa of the rumors about undregroud secret labs. In Chapter 13, after the plate fall, Cloud, Barret and Tifa enter this mysterious underground facility full of monsters and Mako tanks.

7R: There’s a crazy story about a Shinra research lab hidden right beneath our feet - under the slums.

DoC: Deepground soldiers. (...) The shadow of the Shinra company, constructed by the former president and completely hidden from the rest of the world. (...) His goal was to create an army of superhuman warriors - not once letting morality interfere.

  INTERMISSION

During Intermission it is not only confirmed the existence of Deepground but Yuffie and Sonon fight against some soldiers in their DoC uniforms.

Nero: "Team"? Fool. There are no "teams" in Deepground.

Yuffie: Deep...ground?

Nero: The place where my brother and I like to play.

WEISS AND NERO

After getting to Deepground Yuffie and Sonon had to fight against one of the Deepground Tsviets, Nero. Meanwhile Weiss was added as a boss fight in the Shinra Combat Simulator. 

VITUAL REALITY

The overall concept of Shinra using VR simulators comes from DoC. In particoular, in DoC Multiplayer SOLDIERs and Tsviets used to train exclusively in VR arenas. 

MOOGLE YUFFIE

During the first half of Intermission Yuffie wears a tattered cloak with a moogle hood. This piece of clothing appeared for the first time in Dirge of Cerberus. 

Zerith and Cloti Lines & Quotes Parallels

FFVII Original Game, Advent Children (sequel), and Crisis Core (prequel) are written by Kazushige Nojima…. so it’s not surprised to see how he wrote both pairings in similar way as I found these parallels:

Parallel #1: KOIBITO ( 恋人 )

Zack and Aerith

The two characters deeply involved with Aerith were Zack, who would become her lover (koibito), and Tseng, her guardian.  (CC: FFVII Complete Guide)

One day, Zack is suddenly landed in a church in the slum. His cheerfulness and dependability capture Aerith’s heart and they’re being in a (koibito) lovers-like relationship. Although they can only see each other periodically, their thoughts keep them close in spirit. (Aerith’s profile, CC: FFVII Ultimania, pg. 22)

Cloud and Tifa

“Is Tifa your girlfriend (koibito)?” (Aerith asking Cloud, FFVII Remake Chapter 8)

There are many dimensions to Tifa’s character. She’s like a mother, also a sweetheart (koibito), and a close ally in battle (Advent Children Reunion Files book, pg. 19~ Nomura’s interview)

Parallel #2: SWEET YOUNG LOVE, WHAT SHE LIKES ABOUT HIM 

Aerith about 16 years old Zack: 

“He’s strong, kinda funny, and there’s something special about him.”  (Crisis Core Chapter 5 - First Date) 

Tifa about 14 years old Cloud: 

“You were so small then … and cute.”  (Original Game scene 116 - Cloud Dark Past) 

Parallel #3: SHE DRESSES UP FOR THE PROMISE THEY MADE

Zack and Aerith

For when they meet again on their next date, Zack’s specific suggestion was Aerith wearing pink. Aerith–who continued to wait for Zack’s return–starts to wear pink after making this promise (CC: FFVII Complete Guide–Keyword Collection)

Cloud and Tifa

Believing in Cloud’s promise, Tifa’s waiting to see Cloud become a SOLDIER like Sephiroth. Tifa dresses herself in a pretty and sexy look. Does she do that to spirit up herself in preparing for a touching reunion? (Tifa Lockhart Character Profile from CC: FFVII Ultimania)

Parallel #4: SHE ASKED IF HE KNEW A CERTAIN SOLDIER

Zerith: Aerith asked Cloud about Zack in SOLDIER in the Playground (FF7 Remake)

“Did you have any SOLDIER friends? Any war buddies? So Cloud, you were SOLDIER 1st Class, right? Weird. Just that you were in the same rank with the first guy I ever loved.”

Cloti: Tifa asked Zack about Cloud in SOLDIER via mails (Crisis Core)

“Are there any blond guys in SOLDIER?  Well, it’s just a dream… Any girl would love to have a blond SOLDIER guy protect her when she’s in a pinch. I almost forgot. Please don’t tell anyone in SOLDIER that I asked about the blond guy. Okay?” 

Parallel #5: THEY THINK OF EACH OTHER UNDER THE SKY

Zack and Aerith – the cloudy & azure sky

Zack think of Aerith:  “I wish I could show this sky to…” (Crisis Core DMW Cloud Scene #4: Cloudy Sky)

Aerith think of Zack: “He was like a cloud drifting through the skies. As we peered skyward through the rafters of a heavenless Midgar, we made a promise. And that was the last time we spoke.” (Crisis Core 1st Official Trailer)

Cloud and Tifa – the starry & night sky

Cloud think of Tifa: “I was just thinking about the past.”  (Crisis Core DMW Cloud Scene #3: Starry Night At The Well)

Tifa think of Cloud: “Like the sky that night, the heavens were filled with stars. Did you imagine the sky? The stars were gorgeous. It was just Cloud and I. We talked at the well.”  (Original Game scene 116 - Cloud’s Dark Past)

Parallel #6: PROMISE AT THE NIBELHEIM WELL/WATER TOWER

Zack and Aerith –  CC Chapter 013: I Promise

Aerith: Hello… (calling by phone) Zack: Aerith! Aerith: Finally, got through to you! Zack: Ah, sorry about this but I’m in the middle of something right now. I’ll  give you a call a little later . Aerith: No. it’s okay. You don’t have to. Zack: I understand. I’ll come visit. Aerith: I’ll be waiting. Zack: I’Il see you. It’s a promise.

Cloud and Tifa –  OG scene 6: A Childhood Promise

Tifa: You said you wanna tell me something. Cloud: This summer… I wanna leave this town to Midgar. I wanna join SOLDIER… like Sephiroth. Tifa: Is it tough being SOLDIER, isn’t it? Cloud: Yeah, I probably could not go back to this town for a while. Tifa: Hey, why don’t we make a promise? Mmm… if you really get famous and I’m ever in a bind, you’ll come save me, alright? Whenever  I’m in a trouble, my hero will come rescue me. Cloud: Alright, I promise.

Parallel #7: SHE WON’T BE AFRAID WITH HIM, HE PROMISED

Zack and Aerith – CC Chapter 8: 23 Little Luxuries

Aerith: “When you come back from your assignment, let’s go sell flowers under the sky together. I won’t be afraid if you’re with me.”

Zack: “Yeah, I’ll go with you. That’s a promise.”

Cloud and Tifa – OG Scene 136: Understanding

Tifa: “But, it’s alright even if no one comes back. As long as I’m with you… As long as you’re by my side… I won’t give up even if I’m scared.”

Cloud: “Afterall, I promised. That if anything were to ever happen to you, I would come to help.”

Parallel #8: MUTUAL AFFECTIONS/RECIPROCAL FEELINGS

Zack and Aerith

Zack and Aerith meet by chance in a church in the Slums. They become intimate with each other. (FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania Compilation Timeline)

From the boy’s profile

Having fallen into the sector 5 slum church during a mission, Zack has a fateful meeting with Aerith, a young girl who was tending to flowers in the church. They share a “puratonikku koi” / chaste romantic love, satisfied just to be together. Those joyous days seemed like they would last forever… (Zack’s Profile, CC: FFVII Ultimania, pg. 13)

From the girl’s profile

CC shows her meeting and relationship with Zack, and the budding love between them. However, fate would tear the couple apart. (Aerith’s Dengeki Profile)

At that chosen day, she accidentally met Zack, SOLDIER 1st Class, and they were attracted to each other. (Aerith’s Profile, FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania)

The destined encounter with Zack makes them becomes the irreplaceable existence to each other.  (Aerith’s profile, CC: FFVII Ultimania)

His cheerfulness and dependability capture Aerith’s heart and they’re being in a lovers-like relationship. (Aerith’s profile, CC: FFVII Ultimania)

Cloud and Tifa

When their companions disperse to the places where people important to them await, Cloud and Tifa, who remain, reveal their feelings for each other together. (FFVII Ultimania Omega, pg. 198; story summary)

When Cloud and Tifa remain behind alone, in their final hours, together they disclose their feelings for each other. (FF 20th Anniversary Ultimania File 2: Scenario guide, FFVII Story Summary, pg. 232)  

From the boy’s profile

Declares that the team should dissolve in the final hours before the final battle, and communicates his feelings together with Tifa, who remains behind at the airship with him. (Cloud’s Profile, FFVII Ultimania Omega, pg. 15)

From the girl’s profile 

She ventured into Lifestream together with Cloud. Amidst the course of him trying to ascertain his memories, they became aware of the thoughts/feelings which each other was holding. (Tifa’s Profile, FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania. pg. 42-47)

In FF7, Tifa is the only one who knows Cloud’s childhood, and furthermore, she holds the key to people involved in the story of Nibelheim’s burning down, which is also depicted in CC. She and Cloud came to realize their feelings for each other in the end of the story, and live together in AC and DC.(CC:FFVII Ultimania, Tifa Lockhart Profile)

For many years, Cloud and Tifa have been holding favor for one another. At last facing the impending final battle with Sephiroth, they confirm together their feelings of desire toward partnership. (Tifa’s Profile, FF 25th Memorial Ultimania)

Parallel #9: THEY GO BACK TO WHERE THEY BELONG

Zack and Aerith – Afterlife

Zack Profile in FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania: In order to help Cloud recover, he assured him from the Lifestream together with Aerith.

Aerith Profile in ACC Dengeki: She joined the Lifestream, but even then she carries on watching over the planet and Cloud. At all times, her first love Zack is always by her side.

Both are mentioned: …She starts to leave, together with the friend who had given his life to Cloud. Cloud no longer has to suffer in loneliness. And so they too go back to where they belong. Back to the current of life flowing around the planet. (FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania–Revised Edition, ACC Playback)

Cloud and Tifa – Living World

Cloud Profile in FFVII 10th Anniversary Ultimania: With the help of his friends, he defeated Bahamut SHIN, which Kadaj’s gang had summoned. He defeated Sephiroth after his Advent, and returned to Tifa and the children.

Tifa Profile in ACC Dengeki: At the end of a long struggle, she gently welcomes back Cloud on his return home after settling things with himself.

Both are mentioned: “Inside, I felt one thing was for sure: Cloud and Tifa would be together. Everybody would be living back home where they belonged.” (Kazushige Nojima-the scriptwriter, Advent Children Reunion Files book)

Parallel #10: DESCRIBED AS A SINGULAR ITEM / A PAIR

Zack and Aerith described in ACC

For Cloud, they were people whom he can never forget. The two irreplaceable people; Zack, “who was sent to death because protecting me” and Aerith, “who met a tragic fate as I couldn’t protect her” became “the unforgivable sins” in his heart.

(Advent Children Complete Post Card Book)

Cloud and Tifa described in CC

Cloud and Tifa are childhood friends, both born in Nibelheim. When Cloud leaves the village, he calls Tifa out to the water tower and promises that he will become a SOLDIER. At the same time, he is also made by Tifa to promise that he will come to rescue her if she is ever in trouble.

Following this, the pair experience many hardships, such as the Nibelheim incident which also appears in CC, and the Jenova War in FFVII, and through these the distance between them shortens. And in AC they live together, with Barret’s daughter Marlene, and a boy named Denzel. Though there was also a period later where Cloud lived away from them after having contracted Geostigma, they finally reach a commune with each over and return to living together once again. In DC, they rush together to Vincent’s aid, in his battle against Deep Ground SOLDIER.

(CC:FFVII Complete Guide Book)

My response to someone asking me to clarify why I say Cloud can't have been in love with Aerith after only 36 hours yet he loved Tifa as a little kid when they never even interacted. Isn't that hypocritical?

This is divided into 3 parts for clarity like my original comment.

Part 2: Gonna split this reply in 2 parts for  clarity

Pt 1 Clarifying  my point on Cloud's feelings for both girls

The point I brought up is that Cloud start to fall for Aerith eventually yes (that's  why she says you  can't  fall in love with me) but  her reference was of the original game because she knows of the future.  She doesn't mean in that moment.  He has no idea what  she's talking about there but  says she  can't decide that for  him. But it's not  forever  love in the span of two days. She also  says even if he thinks he has it's not real/in his imagination.  Alluding to his identity crisis. He may think  he's in love but there's stuff going on he's  unaware of.

It's not  forever love with Tifa during the game either though not even during Highwind scene. That's the beginning of their feelings being realized. Their feelings also need time to grow and figure themselves out. But Cloud actually gets that time with Tifa because at the end of the game they confess mutual feelings and live together less than three months later. There's plenty of time for development. Unlike with Aerith there wasn't time for it to go further not  that his feelings stopped cold. He just never  time to figure them out before the guilt took over.

He did interact more than once with Tifa they used to see eachother around. They were not close. She watched  him from afar. Cloud just  never  approached but he watched her too. And 16 years old Cloud and 16 years old Tifa liking eachother is canon in Crisis Core and shown in Last Order. Again he falls for  her like  a kid would but  over  a much  longer period of time. 8 years. And these are feelings he still has. It's puppy love. Of course 8 year old isn't going to fall in love for real. It isn't forever love but  definitely a start.

As I said Cloud acts like a kid when it comes to his feelings. He doesn't comprehend them and that's  big part of his character even before his mind broke. That's why 2 days wouldn't mean forever love with Aerith when heck 8 years later he was still struggling with coming to terms  for his feelings for Tifa in Crisis Core.

He's still can't vocalize them in the present and his true self and memories are locked off that's why it's hard to explain.

He doesn't really  understand until the Highwind Scene and in Case Of Tifa and he voices it  and he's still struggling with all sorts of feelings in AC not neccessarily romantic ones. He even  struggles with his fatherly feelings towards Marlene. Heck being happy with Tifa and the children when Aerith  and Zack are dead causes guilt so bad he runs away. Feelings aren't his forte. And the trauma that he's gone through as young as age 9 when he fell off a friggin mountain and was blamed for trying to save a girl precious to him and after that losing those he held dear over and over again doesn't help.

He's a character that takes a lot of time to emotionally come to terms with things especially things like romantic love. So no what he had with Aerith is something he never figured out because he was oblivious. And he is so wrapped up in guilt in AC it probably confused him more.

It takes regular people time to really fall in love. Short term love is infatuation when we don't know someone yet. Now apply it to a character like Cloud who doesn't deal with feelings like regular people. It's unrealistic to say he loves anyone after knowing them for what is basically 36 hours during that scene.

Cloud having the mentality of a 16 year old is the present Cloud. Nomura himself says it. I posted the interview about Remake. Here it is again https://www.inverse.com/gaming/ff7-remake-interview-story-changes-cloud-jessie-wall-market

Part 2: Literally no time has passed for  Cloud between the Nibelheim incident and the events of the story. 16 year old Cloud is the present.

Zack dies in September Tifa finds Cloud between then and December. December  9  is the first bombing he meets Aerith two days later and dies weeks later Meteor fall is in January. Case of Tifa starts in March. Advent Children is 2 years later.

Biggs says it too he says Cloud and the children have so much in common.

Or do you think Cloud mentally caught up after 5 years of being in a mako coma after just a month? No, story wise in the present he's 16. Nomura even says that's why Jesse teases him. He's mentally 16 the whole time.

Cloud realizing his feelings for Tifa is what happens in the Lifestream scene of the game AFTER Aerith's death.  But he obviously is still crushing on her in Remake. The devs said when he's with  Tifa his True self  comes out so that's why.

His 21 year old self couldn't have gotten over Tifa because his last memory before joining AVALANCHE is Zack's death and his last memory that he can actually recall is finding Tifa in the reactor and thinking she's dead. That's yesterday for him. He meets Aerith a few days after waking up and seeing Tifa again.

Aerith dies less than four weeks after meeting her.

Then he finds out about his true self which IS his 16year old self.

That self has feelings for Tifa. That Cloud is literally unlocked in the Lifestream sequence and that's why the developers themselves say in more than one quote that Cloud and Tifa have held favor for eachother for many years before he calls her two the water tower a popular date spot. This was even before they spoke only once as you put it. And the devs go on to say they reveal mutual feelings beneath the Highwind then live together in Advent Children.

This is why in Case of Tifa Cloud is telling her he has her now and now he knows what that means and he always be there to remind her of herself. This is also why Tifa is asking Do You Love Me? And Nojima mentions things not going well in Case of Tifa but maybe the kids can help them work it out. He didn't  want to give opinions  on love marriage and family. Because they were going through relationship issues. Three years later they're still together.

For a timeline reference Cloud liked Tifa since he was a kid

At age 8 he goes to Mt. Nibel with her

At age 14 he calls her to water tower still likes her

At age 16 he hides from her in his mom's house because he still likes her

That scene where Cloud's mom is talking about girls? He's currently hiding from Tifa in that scene because he's ashamed of facing her because he didn't join SOLDIER.

Tifa however is looking for him and in Crisis Core she keeps asking Zack about him

Tifa had a crush on Cloud from afar too but neither of them realized their feelings

That's why they call eachother childhood friends Tifa WANTED to be closer and befriend him

And of course so did he so he rationalized it in his broken mind. Guess we were friends...

During the reactor sequence which is a few days after leaving his mom's house Sepiroth burns the town

Cloud finds Tifa thinks she's dead and it causes him to kill Sepiroth in rage

He still had it bad for Tifa in that scene Zack had pointed it out earlier

Then he's skewered and captured for experimentation right there

He doesn't wake up until 5 years later during Zack's death

Then he wanders around broken for almost 2 months and finds Tifa again.

Seeing her makes the Jenova cells activate and that's why he thinks he's a SOLDIER because she thinks he is and Scells use memories to manipulate

He forgets Zack and anything related to his true self and his true self is locked behind his memories.

His memories of Tifa are also mostly locked

So yes that's why Cloud doesn't show as much interest in Tifa during the time he is SOLDIER! Cloud as 16 year old Cloud does.

He meets Aerith slowly warms up to her as she draws him out of his shell

And eventually they grow closer

She senses his true self is in there somewhere and tells him during their date but he doesn't understand

She goes off to fight Sepiroth alone because she realizes that something is very wrong with Cloud and she doesn't want him to suffer a breakdown

But he does anyway when Sepiroth shows him the real memories he locked away then lied to him

He falls back into Mako poisoning after being in the Lifestream and his then Tifa pieces his broken mind together using their childhood memories the real ones

True Cloud is now back and for him the Nibelheim incident was yesterday and for him he's still 16 years old and his feelings for Tifa that were locked with him  return

That's why the devs talk about them realizing mutual feelings in the Highwind scene.

Case of Tifa starts

That's why things work out like they do. The song Midgar Blues allude to True Cloud's past with Tifa and refer to their feelings. the eng English official version says "left my true love behind". The devs say they held favor for eachother for many years before before even meeting at the water tower.

That's also why Nomura and Nojima say Cloud in the remake is mentally a kid trying to be an adult and why he tries to be cool and why he wants to hug Tifa during her resolution, And why Biggs tells him he has so much in common with the kids.  He wants to be adult like, but  he doesn't realize he literally lost 5 years of his life.

This would not magically change when he met  Aerith a few days later.

The entire game 1.5months after waking up again. He meets Aerith less than a week after Tifa finds him. He has literally no time to be anything other than 16 year old Cloud.

This is just going off  official  material

Next part is my summary in my own words

Part 3

Everything I have written above is what the devs themselves have said.  It's all official  statements.  Not my opinion. As for  a summary in my own words on what it all means.

Tifa is Cloud's past but  she's also his present.  The easiest way to think of it is Cloud's  true personality as another side of himself. because this story follows the Gnostic  ideas of two competing selves. Cloud's  16 year self is his current self but he is unaware.

The reason a lot of people think Tifa is the past is because they don't understand that Cloud acting as SOLDIER Cloud is the one who fell for  Aerith. And that really complicates things. 

Real Cloud was in there but  locked off in his subconscious.

Aerith saw through him but  Real Cloud doesn't actually come back until the end.

SOLDIER Cloud and Real Cloud are not the same. They're essentially two personalities seperate from eachother. But  because of JENOVA's manipulation it's also as if Cloud himself was split into  two people. When True Cloud is in the LifeStream scene he tells Tifa  "Then... this is goodbye, Tifa. Until we meet again......". When he wakes up he says  "Yeah...... Tifa...... We finally...... meet again......". Because True Cloud wasn't actually present until that moment beyond his subconscious.

He was locked away until Tifa literally Lock Heart unlocked him.

It's Nomura and Sakaguchi and Nojima and Kitase after all.

The Gnostic theme here is of two selves fighting for control and causing inner turmoil. Unless one reaches their Tifaret on the path of Sepiroth these selves will stay at war and the the self will be a false self that can't reach it's Final Heaven. This is based on ideas of enlightenment in Kabbalistic mysticism and its what the lore of FF7 is about. Gnostic themes in general are a really big part of SquareEnix games.

And if anyone  wants  a source for anything I have said here feel  free to ask. I have reciepts it would just make this post too long if I post them all at once.

The truth is a lot of us played this when we were young and a lot of stuff went over our heads but Final Fantasy VII is as complicated and mature as Xenogears and has similar lore. It was never a simple adventure and romance story, there's A LOT going on. Basically the Cloud we see in the game until the LifeStream scene is essentially a fake self and we learn the mystery of that through the narrative.

Now it's been confirmed the Remake is canon to the Compilation so it's going to be a lot clearer especially in terms of the Gnostic themes. They're bringing back their original ideas about the Thermaturge too.

listen i am obsessed with this single line of dialogue. it's a Final Fantasy game full of people named crazy shit like GENESIS RHAPSODOS and WEISS THE IMMACULATE and then there's this dude. some random ass guy from the in-game lore equivalent of rural Louisiana whose name may as well be Jim.

And Jim Has Seen It All. he fell 300 meters and crashed through the roof of a church and he walked it off like it was nothing. he's seen his mentor grow one single wing and take to the skies majestically like an albatross. he survived when an alien brain fungus consumed his coworker's consciousness spurring the guy to commit arson and a small genocide. fresh outta high school he's abducted by scientists and trapped in a large petri dish for four years. he escapes and then singlehandedly mows down an entire goddamn army of hundreds of troopers and gets shot like at least twenty times. he tears a metal tree out of the ground and chucks it at a helicopter like a toy shovel, acting cool about it. "ugh mondays am i right? haha"

the rapture is coming. the sky has ripped open like a wrestler's t-shirt and everyone is mourning their impending doom and Jim is just like "it'll be fine lol" but then SEPHIROTH arrives and shoves him into a wormhole. he wanders the empty backstage of reality, and only then does he start to slightly freak out just a tiny bit. no problem. hop in hop out, quick boss battle against the brain fungus coworker, easy peasy. he gets savewarped to another universe, kinda annoying but he can deal, he thinks.

But now there's a fucking meteor crashing down on top of him. And finally, finally— Jim cracks. He can't handle this. What the actual fuck is my life, he finally wonders. "What the hell is going on!?" he finally asks.

Different Stories Resonate with Different People

Truth

We need to make the most of the time we have—to live our lives the way we wanna live. Every minute...every moment, matters.

With the voice recordings underway, what do y’all think part 3 of the FF7 Remake trilogy will be called???