Maybe It's Time For Thomas To Stop ‘waiting For Alastair To Look Back’ And Start Going After Him

Gustave Caillebotte (French, 1848-1894), Le Petit bras de la Seine à Argenteuil, c.1890. Oil on canvas, 81 x 62.3 cm.

So I wanted to ask you a bit more about Bunny and Ralph and their ‘domestic ménage’!  I find it weird too.  It’s never really clear, they seem to speak in code, then there is the separate kettles thing, that freaked me out when I noticed it, and that weird ‘Bunny’s gone’ except that he hasn’t, and then Ralph ‘Do you feel like believing that?’  What do you think is going on there…….

Honestly, I have no idea! I was very meh the first time I read about their relationship (before the car scene, of course) because I was convinced that Laurie was just blowing it all out of proportion. It seemed to me to be a casual relationship: stuff like the separate kettles, Ralph having his own apartment (even though Bunny lives downstairs), etc. all formed this idea in my mind that they were just messing around and weren't anything really serious. Now, I don’t think that’s true anymore but I’m no more clear on the intricacies of their relationship than I was before. Ralph certainly doesn’t seem to respect Bunny and Alec seems to agree that he’s not suited to him (which Laurie reiterates through his constant questioning of how Ralph can stand him). But other than that, I’ve no idea what is going on.

I think a major reason I thought their relationship was weird is because of the fact that all the information we get of it comes from Laurie, who himself feels that way but doesn’t know enough about the situation to provide an answer as to why Ralph would be in it in the first place; he doesn’t know most of the story, is only there at the end, adores one-half of the equation while despising the other…and he’s the only one we can follow along with! It doesn’t help that most of his observations only serve to reintroduce/reinforce the same two questions constantly in his mind: 'why is Ralph with someone like this?' and ‘how can Ralph stand him?’ And that's all we get as readers! It's just Bunny being odd or painfully tone-deaf (the comments about Bim) or actually evil (the car scene+what he does to Andrew) and Laurie looking at Ralph, who he adores and has been dreaming about for years, going: 'but why though?’

I don’t have many other thoughts but I would love to hear more (real, unlike mine) theories! I’m really in the dark about Bunny generally; I feel there’s lots of stuff I didn’t pick up on regarding his character because I was too busy focusing on Laurie and Ralph. Oh, and as far as the ‘can you really believe that?’ comment, I assume it’s just that Ralph is used to such things being disbelieved. Laurie himself has a moment where he thinks they might get back together so long as no one intervenes to keep them away from one another in 48 hours (I think so anyway, I might be misremembering what he said). But anyway, thank you for the ask! I'm sorry I don't have much more to say!

somewhere off in the distance i can hear the herondales readying to battle the man behind this account

Get to know me meme

tagged by @rottenlaertes! thank you!

do you make your bed? sometimes yes, sometimes no

what’s your favourite number? Four!

what is your job? I graduated college and don’t have one yet

if you could go back to school would you? yes, i really liked school and i kinda miss the routine and structure of it

can you parallel park? no, i can’t at all

a job you had that would surprise people? all of my old jobs were terribly predictable actually so i can’t answer this

do you think aliens are real? yes, i think it’s very improbable that we’re the only ones in the entire universe but i don’t think our conception of them might be very accurate what with the green skin and huge eyes etc

can you drive a manual car? no, i can't

what’s your guilty pleasure? i can’t think of one because if i ever feel this way, i try to ignore it until it goes away bc it kinda makes me feel bad to feel this way about other people's work

tattoos? no, but I’d like to get some! I bounce around between ideas but whatever i think of is always small and has some religious value.

favourite colour? I really like green and red (specifically 'wine-dark’)

favourite type of music? I don’t have one but I think I listen to pop music mostly

do you like puzzles? I haven’t done a puzzle in years, so the answer here will also be I don’t know, sorry lol

any phobias? bugs and heights

favourite childhood sport? i liked playing badminton growing up

do you talk to yourself? i do, i like to read out loud and reiterate the ideas behind what i’ve read so through hearing i can understand more, especially with texts that are really convoluted. and this might be a little weird but if i get really excited about a book i start talking to it like the character can hear me (when i was reading the charioteer, i actually audibly said: ‘laurie we are not going to do this please stop’ during the adrian scene and ‘wait, what happened, tell me what happened’ when i realised the ellipses were concealing something in chapter two lol)

what movie(s) do you adore? I’m not a big movie person, but fellowship of the ring is the perfect nostalgic summer afternoon movie for me

coffee or tea? coffee!

first thing you wanted to be growing up? I’ve always wanted to be a writer!

I have no idea who to tag! but if you guys would like @nurseadriansbrother, @argyleheir I'd love to read your responses (and i'm sorry if you've already been tagged in this and i'm bothering you with it again) and ofc anyone else who wants to!

ancient greek olympics going wild rn can't believe Alexias won through the power of honorable love bc Lysis started roaring in the stands

lost in the citadel by lil nas x is the perfect song for alastair and charles, i mean there are lines like:

"I remember when I met you, thought the universe sent you, thought you were someone I could vent to, so I hit your line, what you getting into?"

"I need time to get up and get off the floor, I need time to realize that I can't be yours, I need time to give up just like before, I love it how you know I'd only come right back for more."

"Why I thought it was forever? I only see you maybe never.

Why I thought we'd be together, when you treat it like whatever?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, my love is fallin' down, playing the victim when all my envisionings come slowly tumbling down, putting me back on the ground."

i just feel like it describes how Alastair feels at certain points

Eugene de Blaas 👒🍋

“I drink dew for wine, and hearken to The voices of the birds, and dance To the rhythmic swaying of the grass.

I am the lover’s gift; I am the wedding wreath; I am the memory of a moment of happiness; I am the last gift of the living to the dead; I am a part of joy and a part of sorrow.

But I look up high to see only the light, And never look down to see my shadow. This is wisdom which man must learn.”

- Song of the Flower by Khalil Gibran

I don't understand why Laurie immediately interprets the relationship between Andrew and Dave as anything other than father/child or even just uncle/nephew. I'm rereading chapter 5, where Andrew is telling him all about his father's death and despite the fact that he clearly explains Dave is old enough to have known both his parents, Laurie is insanely jealous of Dave and thinks the whole situation gives him a 'headstart'... why?

I'm trying to think through the rest of what I know happens in the book, and the only other scene I can connect it with is the one where Laurie's sitting with Mervyn and thinks suddenly about how Sandy's friends could misinterpret the situation if they walk by. I don't know if there's supposed to be a connection or anything, but I really do not understand the vibes Laurie is getting at all 😭

I completely forgot the line you mentioned about Andrew’s mind being where it should have been, but your comments about it are spot on! Andrew is too saddened by Laurie leaving, and then too distracted by refusing his demands, that he cannot think enough to come up with a way to comfort Charlot, his actual charge. It really makes the whole thing 10x sadder. I'm definitely gonna have to go back and reread that scene now, just to get a clearer sense of it all!

Re: 'the loss of that relationship feels real to me' I think is because it is a real loss. Laurie loved Andrew, and always felt their relationship to be real even when Ralph didn't, but by the end he can never see him again. It's heartbreaking.

Actually, both times I read the book, I came away happy for Laurie but also very sad and I think his relationship with Andrew (and Andrew's whole storyline) is the reason why. If you think about it, at the end of the book, Laurie is put in the exact same position Ralph was all those years ago at school: here is someone who adores him, and who refuses to believe that he's done what he's been accused of simply because he cannot fathom that he'd do it. And what does Laurie do? Exactly what Ralph did: he tells the truth, gives Andrew the Phaedrus and goes away. But what will happen to Andrew after this? We don't know and neither does Laurie. He may die in the next 5 years, but even if he doesn't, it seems hopelessly optimistic to envision a similar happy ending to Laurie's for him.

Propaganda for Andrew's moral code....

Time for a bit of Andrew love I think.

@telltaleangelina I loved your post about Ralph/Laurie’s philosophy of life compared with Andrew’s, which so resonated with me - they have a kind of heroic idealism which is very attractive, and apart from anything else it supplies most of the drama and action of the book!

But it also made me want to think more about Andrew and his motivations. So, inspired by the 'Hot Austen men' polls, here is some propaganda for Andrew. At fifteen he had to decide whether to throw in his lot with the military side of his family or the pacifist one, and it is made clear he took this decision seriously:

“I thought all around it. I thought there might conceivably even be some circumstances when I felt it was right to kill. If I knew whom I was killing and the circumstance and the nature of the responsibility. What I finally stuck at was surrendering my moral choice to men I'd never met, about whose moral standards I knew nothing whatever."

He becomes a CO not to abrogate moral responsibility but so that he can take responsibility for his actions.  Later he and Laurie have this exchange:

“One has to draw the line where one sees it oneself."

"Is that what you call the inner light?"

"If you like, yes."

So the thing that strikes me about the Charlot incident is that his principled stance is not blind faith or rigidity of thought. His main regret is that fighting with Laurie prevented him finding a solution to the problem.  He says:

“If I ... if my mind had been where it should have been, I'd have known what ought to be done, something would have come to me."

Laurie says:

"I do this kind of thing. I get steamed up about things that happen to people till I've got to do something or burst, and if it turns out to do more harm than good, hell, what's the odds, it did good to me. At school for instance. A man -- one of the boys I mean, was going to be sacked, and because I liked him I took for granted he couldn't have done it, and I was all set to have raised hell and involved a lot of other people. And all the time he'd done it after all."

Laurie admits that actually it feels good to ‘do’ something, even if the other person doesn't want it. It is easy to see that both of them have a valid point when it comes to the practicalities.  But for me, the point is that as long as they are trying to impose their will on each other, and operating from a place of ego, there is no possibility of finding another solution.  There are a hundred things they could have done to ease Charlot’s last moments if they had stopped thinking about themselves for one moment.  I think it's interesting for example that Laurie is the only person Charlot still recognises but he wants to 'outsource' comfort to someone else.

And then I realised that when Laurie is referring back to his 16 year old self getting 'steamed up' it is Ralph who points out to him that however much he might ‘want’ to ‘do’ something, it will be hurting other innocent people such as his own family (and very likely including Ralph himself).

Often, Laurie is annoyed at Ralph's inability to stand by.  The bit on the stairs at the party, for instance, and the bit where he tells Ralph "You can't eat and breathe for me, or live for me. No one can."  Pretty strong stuff to say to the man you just made passionate love to a moment ago! And let's not forget the comment about the drunk trying to mend the watch.

Sometimes I think the really sad thing is that Laurie is locked in to a different system of morality (The Phaedrus), one which means he is Andrew’s mentor and protector and Andrew is the innocent and therefore had no real moral agency. I'm not sure that means he could have or should have been with Andrew as a romantic partner, but the loss of that relationship feels real to me.

And finally....I think you have made me understand something that has always puzzled/amused me a little bit about the arguments that Laurie/Ralph have. He uses all those military analogies that seem to suggest that even while he sees that Ralph is trying to dominate him and battles with it, he is also, kind of, comfortable with it. And maybe it is that he sees himself in Ralph, he completely understands why Ralph is behaving the way he does. I always find that so touching (a little bit funny too, especially the captain shouting 'fire'!)