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hell yeah I'm a catholic, I've been addicted to Catelyn Stark my whole life

ooohhh when dany gets to the wall and jon and jorah meet.... he has his ANCESTRAL SWORD, he has his FATHER'S LOVE, and now he's trying to steal his GIRL. plus he's ned stark's son. it's about to get messyyy

fnaf kid skibidi toilet kid

The siren call of making a funny joke about The Character™ vs the fear that people will see your silly little joke as the be-all end-all of your understanding of The Character™ and assume you don't understand them on a deep level (and be mean about it)

The more you bunch of weirdos dehumanize Rhaenyra, the more I'm gonna love her <3

(ACOK, Tyrion IX / So Spake Martin)

Broke: Sansa will hate Dany on sight

Woke: Sansa will see Dany and think “Blorbo from my songs”

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Walk with me here, but I think a big part of this fandom's problem is idpol. It's why you have braindead takes like "Yes Mirri was right to kill the child of another enslaved child." "justice for the brown woman" but they never mention that Mirri's argument for the forced abortion of Rhaego is racially essentialist in nature. "The brown baby boy will grow up to be a huge brown rapist" was Mirri's argument and this fandom eats it up uncritically because they hate the "white slave owner".

Their arguments for mad kween Dany are also essentialist in nature. You can never escape the cycle of generational trauma and violence. She will eventually become like her rapist father because his evil is literally written into her genes. No matter how far you come or how high you go, you will never escape your genetics.

I wouldn't mind criticism of Dany's actions if they dug deeper than just "white girl bad, brown woman good" but the arguments are never that, they want to analyse Dany's actions under the world's largest microscope but never ask the hard questions about Mirri's actions.

They don't care about canonically brown/black characters that have been harmed by white characters in the text. They want to talk about how Tywin has Alayaya whipped and thrown out of the Red Keep or how Cersei has her abducted and beaten to punish Tyrion and how all Tyrion can think is "thank god it wasn't Shae."

How Oberyn purchases sex from the 16-year-old Alayaya. How George has written the Summer Islanders and how that in itself is racist. How Oberyn beat Obara's mother and took Obara from her. Illyrio Mopatis and his horde of enslaved people despite the fact that slavery is outlawed in Pentos.

The fandom would be better if more people bring their metas down to earth. Because we should not be having these conversations all these years later. The first book is older than me, you'd think the fandom would have gotten all this out of their system.

N.B. Until we as a fandom are ready and willing to have a serious conversation about how often a large majority of the fandom slips into fascist talking points to justify their hatred for the teenage girl, we will never have meaningful discourse about these characters or this universe.

empty idpol idiots 🤝🏾 fascists for some reason.

Ultimately I agree with your points about people not analyzing the text for what it presents and how it's written for the sake of taking superifical details and running with them for advocating for whatever identity they are advocating for. I don't think Mirri was necessarily using essentialist arguments for hurting Dany, though and I am confused as to the some of the writing here, and I don't feel I can make any deeper comments otherwise.

This is what Mirri-Dany's exchange (A Game of Thrones -- Daenerys IX):

Dany gestured at Ser Jorah and the others. "Leave us. I would speak with this maegi alone." Mormont and the Dothraki withdrew. "You knew," Dany said when they were gone. She ached, inside and out, but her fury gave her strength. "You knew what I was buying, and you knew the price, and yet you let me pay it." "It was wrong of them to burn my temple," the heavy, flat-nosed woman said placidly. "That angered the Great Shepherd." "This was no god's work," Dany said coldly. If I look back I am lost. "You cheated me. You murdered my child within me." "The stallion who mounts the world will burn no cities now. His khalasar shall trample no nations into dust." "I spoke for you," she said, anguished. "I saved you." "Saved me?" The Lhazareen woman spat. "Three riders had taken me, not as a man takes a woman but from behind, as a dog takes a bitch. The fourth was in me when you rode past. How then did you save me? I saw my god's house burn, where I had healed good men beyond counting. My home they burned as well, and in the street I saw piles of heads. I saw the head of a baker who made my bread. I saw the head of a boy I had saved from deadeye fever, only three moons past. I heard children crying as the riders drove them off with their whips. Tell me again what you saved." "Your life." Mirri Maz Duur laughed cruelly. "Look to your khal and see what life is worth, when all the rest is gone." Dany called out for the men of her khas and bid them take Mirri Maz Duur and bind her hand and foot, but the maegi smiled at her as they carried her off, as if they shared a secret. A word, and Dany could have her head off … yet then what would she have? A head? If life was worthless, what was death?

A)

I could be reading this ask incorrectly. Did you mean "they don't want" when you said: "They don't care about canonically brown/black characters that have been harmed by white characters in the text. They want to talk about how Tywin has Alayaya whipped and thrown out of the Red Keep or how Cersei has her abducted and beaten to punish Tyrion and how all Tyrion can think is "thank god it wasn't Shae."? Because with you saying "They don't care about canonically...in the text", it seems like it, but Idk.

B)

You: "but they never mention that Mirri's argument for the forced abortion of Rhaego is racially essentialist in nature. "The brown baby boy will grow up to be a huge brown rapist" was Mirri's argument and this fandom eats it up uncritically because they hate the "white slave owner"."

Mirri is Lhazareene/Essosi herself, so she is technically a brown person. Her seeming "Dothraki vs Lhazareene"-ism is not white-on-brown crime or violence. Dothraki do perform extreme violence--sexual or otherwise--on other groups and obliterate their ways of life to absorb them as free labor into their own communities for power. So--we're just thinking from her perspective here, not fans--when she is saying that Dany's son will grow up into someone like Drogo and lead more destructive/raping campaigns for "culture" and power, In her perspective, I think it wasn't really about genetics so much as what social environment the boy would grow up in and him being more influenced by the men/bad actors around him than a single girl/woman who saved her. Bc Mirri didn't expect Dany to be able or want to migrate out of a typical Dothraki community.

She's looking at the prospect of a child growing up into the sort of man who would rape and pillage and more than that, she's looking for personal vengeance against Drogo through that child and Dany. Because she cannot get to Drogo through a more direct means, she uses and targets Dany.

This does not mean that Mirri was morally correct and justified, she still targets & harms a child bride/rape victim for her own aims. I'm saying the opposite.

You: "Their arguments for mad kween Dany are also essentialist in nature. You can never escape the cycle of generational trauma and violence. She will eventually become like her rapist father because his evil is literally written into her genes. No matter how far you come or how high you go, you will never escape your genetics."

Yeah, I agree with this--the arguments against Dany are essentialist.

However, whether or not Dany is or is not going to lose her mind (she isn't), the very argument for her becoming that from those essentialist arguments is not equal/same as the idea of Rhaego becoming the worst kind of leader bc there isn't even an "understandable" base reason for them to believe a girl who didn't even grown up as a "typical" Targ--she was born while her brother and mother were fleeing, never to return to Westeros-- would become the worst of them or become exactly like the image of a Targ that is in their heads. Whereas Rhaego would have grown up in a khalasar, it makes sense for someone to assume Rhaego would become that versus Dany becoming a version of an evil queen.

Still, once again, Mirri targeted a child bride/rape victim for personal revenge and refused to accept the fact that Dany's influence might be enough to raise a better child. After the girl actually risked herself and went out of her way to save Mirri.

Did you find what you needed?

YOU can write whatever you want whenever however forevrr. i have to write something perfect and earth shattering and i have to do it perfectly the first time or else