On Friendship.

is this a safe space. I have something to say about john winchester

the whole "dean knew it was the demon cuz john would never say he's proud of dean" fanon idea bothers me

for one, that's not what dean says in the scene. he says that john would be mad wasting a bullet and not be proud of him for that specific thing, not that he wouldn't be proud of him ever. secondly, john goes on to say that he really is proud of him when he's back to himself.

fanon likes to villianize john and I just can't get on board with it :/ like john at his core LOVES his family, would and has killed and died for them.

and besides, isn't it much more delicious to think that the reason dean thinks john wouldn't be proud of him is because they leave it unspoken? that instead of telling their love for each other, they show it, and assume that the others would also kill and die for them. all that tension and miscommunication..... yummm

some jared line deliveries that stuck in my head during rewatch

my take on the whole "dean was parentified" narrative and where that slippery slope usually takes people ("sam was spoiled as a kid and dean shielded him from all harm") is that many people can't comprehend that dean was in fact parentified, but that doesn't mean he was sam's father. sam had a father, and it was john.

nor does it mean sam was spoiled or babied by either of them. canon doesn't support this interpretation despite it being so popular in the fandom.

dean was parentified in the sense that he had responsibilies and stressors that weren't appropriate for his age and his role as a son... but that doesn't change the fact that his relationship with sam was that of a brother, not a parent.

at one point dean says "I had to be more than just a brother. I had to be a father, and I had to be a mother." and his feelings of overwhelm and resentment are valid—their childhoods were difficult, stressful, and abnormal.

however, this doesn't mean "john was absolutely useless and neglectful, so he was completely out of the picture. dean was indeed sam's father and mother. and he fulfilled those roles so well that sam had a happy, easy childhood and he was freed from any parent-related trauma, since dean was his parent, and he did a stellar job at it"... you know?

parentified siblings are siblings after all (and sam and dean only have a 4-year age gap). and dean did "fail" in his parentified role—sometimes he fucked up, sometimes he was the one hurting sam. in many ways, he didn't understand sam's needs or how to fulfill them. which is understandable. and he definitely couldn't shield sam from the difficulties they both had to face. that was well beyond his capability after all

on top of that, sam was taught self-reliance from a young age and he was exposed to the hardships of their lifestyle just like dean (hardships in general since he was born, and hunter-related ones since he was eight). and most of the glimpses we get of sam as a child/teen show a lonely, sad, troubled person. where's the pampered and unconcerned child!sam people keep hallucinating?

deep down, the issue is that people seem to put sam and dean on a seesaw and weight their problems and traumas against each other. if we say sam had a shitty childhood, then we're somehow denying dean's traumas and sacrifices. and if we believe dean suffered a lot in his youth, then that must mean sam had everything served on a silver platter. and that makes no sense.

chart of my age over time

She's the death you chose You're in terrible danger

i know there’s a “who is the monster and who is the man?” hunchback of supernatural edit out there

1x01 // 1x09

hi so what qualities do you think dean admires about sam and vice versa would like to know your thoughts

Love your meta btw as a new spn fan

Hi Nonny, tysm for the ask!

I haven't thought a ton about this question prior to now, so I'm interested in other people's opinions too if they want to add them on reblog. But it seems to me that the 'what does Dean admire about Sam' half of the question is pretty easily answered, because Dean isn't shy with his praise of Sam in canon.

He's also not shy with his criticism, of course, and I think this is because some of the things he admires most about Sam are the same things that are dangerous to him personally. My favorite recap is in the finale:

And there's this from 15.11:

Dean says similar things in other episodes, going way back to 1.11, which the finale speech is practically a word for word recap of:

I think Dean legitimately believes all this; that Sam is better than him in practically every way-- smarter, more compassionate, more optimistic, possessed of a better moral compass (usually), more skilled in a variety of ways, etc. And especially that Sam is healthier than him; more of a complete, autonomous human being who would be fully able to live a "normal" life if circumstances were right, whereas he, Dean, would not be. By "you're stronger than me" (which he also tells Sam before he goes to Hell in s3) he means "capable of independence".

I have decidedly ambivalent feelings about the "Dean is Sam's Parent" reading of spn, but I do think this is a very parental type of admiration; both because of the 'I'm proud' piece and because 'I raised you to be able to outlive me' is maybe a parent's primary responsibility second only to unconditional love. And I think it's realistic and sympathetic that Dean admires these traits in Sam while simultaneously fighting tooth and nail to undermine Sam ever actually becoming fully independent as long as Dean's alive (and until the finale, even afterwards). "You're better than me; don't leave me" is honestly extremely relatable.

R.e. the 'what does Sam admire in Dean' part of the question, I think that's more complicated to explain, and I'm especially interested in what other fans think about this part. I think obviously if someone asked Sam what he admires in Dean, he'd be able to run off a list of traits. And he does sometimes mention traits he finds admirable in Dean, like in 8.14 where he says "You're not a grunt, Dean. You're a genius" and says Dean is a better hunter than either himself or their father.

But for the core of what I think Sam feels about Dean that's in the same, idk, synonym group ig, as 'admiration', I don't think 'admires' really covers it very well. It's almost more like worships. He thinks, quite simply, that Dean is good. And since he thinks that he, Sam, is fundamentally not good, he sees Dean as the final arbiter of, well, everything. Sam thinks Sam could never go on a quest like Galahad, but although it's never specifically mentioned, I think its pretty clear he believes Dean could.

I think Sam feels about Dean the way I think deeply religious people--not the kind that mouth platitudes but the kind that have really struggled with and thought long and hard about their faith--feel about God. He knows Dean makes mistakes, he knows Dean is deeply fucked up in many ways, he yells at and argues with Dean and goes behind Dean's back and lies to him and etc, all because he does truly understand that Dean's decisions are, on a practical level, sometimes honestly pretty messed up. But he also has an unshakable faith that where he, Sam, might make bad choices because he's bad, Dean will struggle but ultimately always eventually choose correctly, even if one of the steps along the way is chopping Sam's head off with Death's scythe. Because Dean is good. Sam fans (myself included) will look back on the panic room and think "wow Dean sure was living up to the family-is-hell premise on that one", but Sam will look back on it and think "he saved me".