I Haven't Read ACOTAR So Take This With A Grain Of Salt But Reading Through The Anti And Pro Tags Has

Men aren't allowed to express their emotions properly by society, so they channel their feelings into rage and take that rage out, and because society allows men to do it, it enables this from the cradle to the grave.

Honestly, Rick’s world building fell apart the moment he introduced Roman gods. Because the og series already conflated the Greek and Roman gods - which is fine, most mythology media does, that’s not the issue. The issue is making a whole sequel series about how different the Greek and Roman gods are, then failing to explain what those actual differences are. It’s almost hypocritical. Like how satyrs and fauns are different things, but you can’t really say that because the og series was already calling fauns satyrs - which, again, a lot of already people do and would have been fine if you didn’t bring the concept of Roman mythology being a separate thing into it. It isn’t just the Greek gods with different names, there are real differences, but that being said, most of them are pretty minor and at the end of the day are just different versions of Greek stories. Because here’s the thing - Greek vs Roman isn’t that black and white because there are different versions of mythology from different parts of Greece. They did not all believe the same things. There were essentially different denominations that had their versions, and sometimes different names for the gods, or even their own gods added into what we think of as the typical Greek pantheon. Take Orphism for example - they called Zeus Jove and Hades Pluto (yeah, the Greeks were using that name long before the Romans), and had at least 2 gods weren’t recognized anywhere else in Greece - but were still 100% Greek. So then the question becomes, are there different people/personalities for all these versions too? You would think it would be easier to just say “here are these different versions, because when things spread through oral tradition, things tend to change, but here’s the REAL version” and pick whatever one is most plot relevant (which I think the og series already kind of did if I remember correctly). Not only is that more realistic, but just makes more narrative sense. Some people might say “oh, but they’re kids books, you don’t have to get so technical about it”, and you’re right. It didn’t have to be. Again, I think it was completely fine that the og series didn’t differentiate, but Rick opened this can of worms when he introduced the Roman gods, so I’m going to be nitpicky about it. What would have made more sense is if it was just like “Oh, there’s this other demigod camp and they just so happen to use the Roman names for the gods”. Boom. Done. What about gods that were unique to Rome? They can still be real. Say that only the Romans knew/wrote about them. Heck, there was that one pjo spinoff book that had freaking Melinoe in it, even though the majority of Greece would not have considered her existence to be canon. Again, nothing wrong with that, but if you’re not going to differentiate that, then there is no reason to differentiate the Romans (or more accurately, attempt to differentiate the Romans and fail).

All of this. Every single thing in it.

Rick simplified it for the children who were reading it, but he wrote a lot of it incorrectly.

The Romans didn't just take inspiration from the Greeks-they took a lot of inspiration from Etruscan culture too.

Read this link by @lady-menrva to understand more.

The Greek and Roman gods were different in PJO because the Roman Gods were more disciplined and warlike, but that seems to be the only difference, which isn't the case.

Minerva was highly respected by the Romans. She was part of the Capitoline Triad which was very important and held a central place in Rome. They represented Roman greatness and invincibility! If she had children, they would definitely be warriors if they wanted to be.

Rick just made the Romans dislike Neptune and Minerva because he needed unnecessary angst for Percy and Annabeth. Why he did this I don't know, since they were just accepted without any question later. Just wanted to make his favorites more special, I guess.

My advice to anyone reading this is to never take Heroes of Olympus as anything that's correct. Never take any of it seriously and search on Google for your questions using verified academic websites or ask real people.

I really don't understand why Thalia had to fight the monsters and sacrifice herself for Luke and Annabeth RIGHT ON THE BORDER OF CAMP HALF BLOOD.

Literally WHERE were Chiron and Dionysus? They knew that getting Thalia to camp was very important-hell, why didn't Chiron himself search for her instead of letting an inexperienced satyr guide her?

Just another one of Rick's terrible writing choices that make no sense. This has been bothering me for a long time..........

It's been a little while but I want to know : have you read the Bacchae now ? If yes, what's your opinion on it 👀 ?

(yes it's an excuse to start a discussion on this play)

I'm busy with personal stuff, so I haven't read all of the Bacchae yet.

I did however start reading it but had to stop because I'm busy, sorry haha.

However, if you and other people want to discuss it on this post, go right ahead!

I'll read it in a few months and get back to you :D

What other Greek mythology based books would you recommend

Greek Mythology based books? Well, if you're looking for stories like PJO, I don't know-

But I would really recommend reading the Odyssey and Iliad, even translated versions of them with easier-to-read language. I would also recommend reading Euripedes' Bacchae and his other works like Medea.

@margaretkart

@superkooku

@katerinaaqu

The tagged people will be able to recommend more books like the ones I listed above.

We should've seen Solangelo's development

The thing is, it's important to show the readers the development of a ship for them to really accept it properly.

If you stick two characters together with barely any prior development, then, well, the readers aren't going to ship them.

This is the reason why Percabeth is the most popular ship in the fandom-they got 5 whole books of development and they were friends first with no romantic feelings at all (no, I'm not going to accept the statement that Rick made regarding Annabeth falling for Percy when she was 12-she was always his friend first and went on the quest only for her own glory).

This is the reason why ships like Jiper and Caleo always fail.

Now, we as the readers know that Solangelo had 6 whole months together. They presumably spent a lot of time during these months with each other and as a result got to know each other quite well and start a romantic relationship.

We know that they had development.

It's just that Rick never bothered to write it for us, so we were left to create our own development, and while it can be absolutely awesome to do that, it would be so much better if Rick had given us Solangelo development, because many people still don't care for Solangelo as it barely had any on-page development.

And yes, on-page development is crucial for a romantic ship. If there's no on page development, it doesn't matter if they spent months or years together. If we as the readers could not read about their development, we're barely going to ship them.

It's the truth. We need to read it to see it. Fanfics are nice, and I'm not saying that you shouldn't write them, but a lot of people, especially gay people, want actual proper development written in canon books, not just slapped on rep that's expanded on in fanon.

But! You say. But Solangelo's the second most popular ship in the PJO fandom!

That's because they have a grumpy/sunshine dynamic which is so alluring to readers, and they're opposites attract, and they were the first real gay rep in a time period where there wasn't much gay rep, so queer people really clung onto this because it was very special to them. And honestly, I can't blame them.

But it's time to demand proper development for LGBTQ ships. Not just slapped on rep for brownie points-we need to demand more characters who are gay, but whose sexuality isn't their whole personality, and we need to demand about more people discovering their sexuality.

Nico and Will were already in a romantic relationship in ToA and TSATS, so we missed out on all the development and jumped immediately to the cute romantic moments which are nice, but if I'm being honest, barely have any weight WITHOUT PROPER DEVELOPMENT.

I made a similar post here saying that we needed development for LGBTQ ships.

I'm not anyone's anti, pro, fan or stan. I really just said something that needed to be said, and I think that a lot of people will agree with me.

COMPARING JUDE DUARTE TO PERCY JACKSON AND SOPHIE FOSTER

So, I've read TFOTA, KOTLC and PJO, and I'm sure many other people have done the same. I've been comparing Jude to Percy and Sophie for a long time, so I wanted to type it out and make an analysis. Here we go now.

One thing I find about Jude is that she's different from both Percy and Sophie in the sense that she's thrust into a hostile world where she had no friends and had to fend for herself pretty early on. Her parents are murdered right in front of her eyes and she's taken to Elfhame, and we know that the TFOTA faeries don't like humans-most of them at least.

And while Sophie is also thrust into an entirely different system, it's friendly to her. Yes, she misses her human family and Amy, but Shannon barely goes into this. Sophie's not harmed or looked down upon (except by a few people, and they're not that relevant.) In fact, she's quite important and gets a lot of help (along with a bunch of trauma, though. Not trying to downplay Sophie's experience).

Percy also discovers the world of demigods, but he doesn't have to leave much behind-the mythological and modern world are heavily intertwined, so actually gains something, which means that he can go on living his life like he used to, except with advantages now (except being hunted by monsters)

Which brings me to my first point-

JUDE HAS NO PROTECTION SYSTEM OR HELP

Sure, she's Madoc's ward, but she's not his actual daughter. But she's a human in Elfhame-and we all know what that means. Those of us who have read the books, at least. Sure, being Madoc's adopted daughter gives her some protection, but it doesn't stop her from being glamoured and traumatized. It doesn't stop her ring finger's tip from being bitten off at 9 years old, by one of Madoc's servants no less, right in his stronghold. It doesn't stop the servants from mentally abusing her by making her feel inferior and telling her that she is lucky to be raised like this. Jude herself says that Tatterfell was probably considering pricking the former with a pin, implying that Tatterfell has done it before, which is still physical abuse. It doesn't prevent her from being drugged and danced around against her will at 11, and it doesn't stop her from being bullied by Cardan and Co.

Now moving onto Percy and Sophie-they had amazing support systems. Percy had Camp Half Blood. He was Poseidon's son, a Big Three Kid, and they're practically worshipped. He had so many friends at camp. He had Chiron and his mom Sally, who was an AMAZING parental figure. And then Percy had Paul. Percy also had Poseidon at times, though the latter rarely showed up-he still helped Percy quite a lot. Percy also had the gods. Artemis and Apollo helped him. Aphrodite helped him. Poseidon helped him. Dionysus helped him. Hestia helped him. Hera guided them through the labyrinth and made Percy's arrow fly perfectly. Hephaestus helps him too. The majority of the Olympian council has helped Percy, and without their help, he'd be nowhere. He also has magic, insane magic powers and he's pretty magically powerful, which Jude is not. She doesn't have any magic-the closest thing she has to it is the geas that makes her immune to glamours, and that Prince Dain placed on her when she asked him to. Percy is basically a Chosen One after all the other Big Three kids (Thalia-huntress, Bianca-dead and Nico-too young) are pushed out.

Sophie also has a great support system. She's got many parental and trusted authority figures-Elwin, Alden, Grady, Edaline and Della. She also has her friend circle-Keefe, Fitz, Biana, Dex, Wylie, Marella, Linh, Tam-which rapidly expands and the support of the Black Swan. AND she has powerful magic and is a chosen one like Percy. Something else that Jude doesn't have.

To summarise this, Percy and Sophie had great support systems that they could lean on and they were helped by others quite a lot (especially Percy) whereas Jude mostly helped herself.

JUDE HAS NO GOOD PARENTAL FIGURES OR FRIENDS

Unlike Percy and Sophie, Jude doesn't have healthy parental figures either. But! you say. But she has Madoc! Madoc is not a healthy parental figure.

Jude loves him in an uncomfortable way, yes. He cares about her, yes. He insisted that she be raised like the Gentry Faeries-that she learn swordplay and strategy, wear beautiful gowns and attend Faerie revels. But he still murdered her parents right in front of her eyes when she was a child. He still ran his sword through her and left her out to bleed. He still abandoned her to die when he felt that she was a hindrance. He loves her, yes, and he would do a lot for her, but he is in no way a healthy parental figure. Oriana is not a parental figure to Jude. She's only Oak's mother. Not Jude's, not Taryn's, not Vivienne's. She is, in fact, normally cold and stand offish with them, though she can be helpful at times. Taryn is Jude's closest 'friend' and we know how many times she betrays Jude during the course of the series (Locke and Madoc). Vivienne is perhaps the healthiest relationship that Jude has (besides the Court of Shadows). She's a good sister who has come through plenty of times for Jude when no one else has, supplying her and Taryn with quick magic whenever necessary…… but even she has her limits. First of all, she doesn't want to stay in Elfhame forever. She understandably hates and doesn't want to live with her parents' murderer, but where else can she live in Elfhame? Even if she could live somewhere else, she doesn't want to, and wants to go back to the Mortal Realm. She stays for Jude and Taryn, then leaves for Heather. She is also somewhat selfish and doesn't listen to Jude either. She doesn't help Jude with politics either-Jude is able to trust Vivienne because the latter stays loyal to Jude, but only for so long till she tires and goes back to the Mortal Realm. And this is where I come to the Court of Shadows. Honestly, they're one of my favorite parts of TFOTA. Their relationship with Jude is amazing-BUT, hear me out. I'm talking about Jude for the whole decade that she lived in Elfhame, and she didn't even have the Court of Shadows for a fraction of that time. So yes, they're her best support system, even if The Ghost was under Locke and then Madoc's control for much of the series-and he showed remorse afterwards and apologised. Even if the Bomb tried to kill Jude because the former understandably thought that the latter was trying to kill Cardan-and she showed remorse afterwards and apologized. And there's no time when the Roach actively tries to harm Jude. Yeah, I love these guys' dynamic so much, I'd read a whole book on them. (Honorable mention for Fand here-while she was not Jude's friend, she was friendly with her and was Jude's first personal guard as Queen).

To summarise this paragraph, Jude didn't have a good support system her whole 10 years-Madoc's protection didn't always protect her, Taryn is self-explanatory and Vivienne could be selfish and had her limits as well. Except at the very end when Jude joined the Court of Shadows.

PERCY AND SOPHIE WERE CHOSEN ONES

Percy and Sophie were also 'Chosen Ones'. Percy was the prophecy kid, the Savior of Olympus, and Sophie is the Black Swan's weapon. Jude is not a Chosen One-being a mortal in Faerie, she's quite the opposite. She's simultaneously at a high rung of a ladder due to being Madoc's ward and at a low rung, due to being a human among faeries. She never had any magical powers and was at a severe disadvantage due to this for most of her time in Elfhame until Dain gave her the geas.

To summarise this paragraph-Percy and Sophie were magically powerful 'chosen ones', something Jude was most definitely not-in fact, she was the opposite until she got Dain's geas.

Percy and Sophie were already at the top of the ladder-they only had to climb a few rungs, while Jude was quite lower than they were, though not at the very bottom, and she had to climb a whole lot more than they did.

These facts make Jude a more compelling protagonist than Percy or Sophie to some people.

TO CONCLUDE Now, I'm not trying to bash Percy or Sophie here-Jude had 10 years in Elfhame while Sophie barely has 3 years in the Lost Cities and Percy only has 2-3 years of training his powers. There's a difference between the appeal of Jude versus Percy and Sophie-the first one's appeal is a powerless person rising to power and the second appeal is being a powerful person, an important chosen one, and having people admire and look up to you. Both can appeal to different people and the same people. But protagonists like Jude have an appeal that protagonists like Percy and Sophie can never have.

I think Jude is somewhat like Luke-ruthless and willing to do anything to ensure her loved ones' safety, including killing. She also rebels against the system like Luke and changes part of it by breaking the mold to fit herself in there. I'm not sure whom she's like from KOTLC, but if I had to pick a person, I'd pick either Forkle or Fintan-ruthless, morally grey, willing to do a lot to break the system and get accepted.

Though she is WAYYYYYYY morally better than them-a lighter shade of gray, if you will. She would never kidnap and torture a bunch of children for information and she'd never leave them to find their own way home when the chances are quite low.

I also think, that if the circumstances mandated it, Percy could be as ruthless as Jude if required. I'm not quite sure about Sophie, due to the whole elf guilt mental break thing, but I think that she could also be ruthless like Jude if she can convince herself that it's for the greater good and her loved ones.

Whew, this might be my masterpiece post. Well, if you have any counter arguments, then feel free to post them.

You did NOT just compare Annabeth and Gabe to each other.

I swear to god you anti Percabeths are the dumbest, most incomprehent people I've ever met. I seriously think you should just kys honestly the world would be a better place off without you.

No I don't think it's wrong you're anti Percabeth so yeah

I did, in fact, compare Annabeth to Gabe!

I don't think that Annabeth is as bad as Gabe (nope nope nope) but I do think that she's very toxic and that she hurts Percy. I think that they need to break up and heal alone. Her lack of character growth is very frustrating.

The lack of specificity in your death threat is annoying. If you do want me to kill myself, you're going to have to be more particular-the necessary tools, how long it'll take, how painful it'll be, etc. I take painless methods only.

I do think that not much would be changed in the world if I killed myself, but it would probably be a somewhat worse off place without me because I have people who love and care for me and I'm not doing anything bad to the world, so there's that.

When I came into this fandom, people told me that Percabeth stans would be rabid and hateful, and I don't think that's the case for the majority of them, seeing as that period already passed and they seem more mature now (or maybe it's just Tumblr) but you seem to be an exception. I wonder if you're the same anon as last time? I'll never know.

In any case, I'd like to thank you for your use of better grammar than the last one, though your not adding a period at the end of the last sentence irks me. I'd also prefer it if you didn't use the abbreviation of kys and said kill yourself. I dislike it when people use bad grammar, though that's just a personal preference.

Your morality is interesting-I forget the exact term for it, but you think it's bad to tell your side to kill themselves but have no problem telling the opposite side to kill themselves just because..............they're your enemies. Which is a terrible reason. Not surprising from a hardcore Percabeth stan, though.

I don't tend to think of people whom I disagree with as automatically bad people-that is a very harmful mentality to have. I have fought with some people, but they're not bad people-we just disagree on certain things and I know that they produce great content and have good morals just like me. Please adopt this mentality and the world will be slightly better, because every change is a change, no matter how big or small.

Anyway, I will be the bigger person and I hope that you sleep well tonight! Au revoir!

.

ohm god anti Percabeths like u r soo annoying legit just kill urself

I have a better idea-track me down and kill me yourself and use my soul to bring your grammar back to life.