I Really Don't Understand Why Thalia Had To Fight The Monsters And Sacrifice Herself For Luke And Annabeth

The Small Fandoms

Can we just get some love for the small fandoms? The tiny ones? The barely there ones, with people who've read the books, but can't find anyone else who has, even though there are people out there?

Ponniyan Selvan, The Dandelion Dynasty, The Inheritances Games, Jeeves, Snow Like Ashes, Raybearer, Enola Holmes, Sheena Meyer (LITERALLY NONEXISTENT) Murder Most Unladylike and others (add them in the comments)

I GUARANTEE you that if Rick didn't make Athena have children, he would also have made her be a child somehow.

You know, one thing I LOVE about The Folk of the Air is the existence and juxtaposition of the modern mortal world and Faerie.

Vivienne drinks mango smoothies. Heather plays games on her phone. The modernity of the mall is described in great detail. Bobblehead figurines make an appearance. Minecraft, Uno, Go Fish, Ring Pops, Halloween, soccer and Rocket League are explicitly mentioned.

Jude rides in buses and on bikes. Vivienne and Heather live in a modern mortal apartment building. Oak eats string cheese and food colored cereal and milk. It's all just so beautiful.

And this happens in other fantasy series like Shadowhunters, but the reason that I love it here is because we're looking at the modern mortal world from a person who has lived in Faerie.

We're looking at it from a near faerie's perspective, and while it's not completely shocking, Jude feels very foreign in it. It's a sort of culture shock to her after spending so much time in Faerie.

I think I like it essentially because it's a human culture shock to a foreign species. That's what I love about it.

I was just rereading The Sword of Summer and TLT by Rick Riordan, and I came to parts where the Norse and Greek gods were called 'lowercase G gods,' while the Abrahamic gods were called, 'Capital G gods.'

Jeez, Rick, you really had to add that in, huh? You do realise that there are Hellenistic Pagans who view their gods as highly as Christians view their God and Muslims view Allah? Like, holy shit, you did not have to downgrade them like that. There was no need for that. No need at all.

This just reeks of blatant Abrahamic superiority, which is annoying but sadly unsurprising.

All I'm saying right now is that I can see why so many Hellenistic Pagans and Greek people hate PJO. There's nothing wrong with hating it for those reasons.

You buffoon. You imbecilic clown. You absolute dimwit.

You do realise that you can like media and be critical of it? You do realise that you can dislike some aspects of media (like mythological inaccuracies, cultural disrespect, the sexualisation and adultification of girls of color to name a few among the many terrible things that Rick Riordan wrote.)

I do agree with you that OP shouldn't feel guilty for liking Percy Jackson. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's harmful if you can only like it and not be critical of it. You should always be critical of things, even what you love.

Also, it's pretty fun and therapeutic to be a hater at times, not that you'd know, since you're set on defending your wonderful Rick Riordan (who, by the way, is immature and refuses to apologise for his harmful representation of Piper and Samirah, two females of color).

The theme of PJO is representation, but the representation in question is horrible written and many fans have criticised it. They're not hating, they're simply criticising, which I would like to clarify are two different things by the way, since you don't seem to be capable of understanding this basic knowledge. I'd recommend scrolling through the rr crit tag to cure your Rick Riordanitis, though you don't seem like the type to want to challenge your worldview.

You say 'anyone with a brain' yet I've seen several people with brains criticise (I'm going to clarify that criticism and hater are two different things because I fear that your lack of a brain will cause you to forget very quickly) Rick's representation and (at times) second-rate writing.

And the fact is that Percy Jackson is one of the most famous series out there. It's not just some generic fantasy novel that throws in some representation, pats itself on the back and calls it a day (Though Rick Riordan did do what I just said).

Millions of people are reading it and absorbing this harmful representation, thinking it's true. It feeds into the narrative of Indigenous girls being sexualised, it feeds into the narrative of black girls being adultified, it feeds into the narrative of WOC having to have exotic features to be seen as beautiful and it feeds into so many more implicit biases that are present, unconscious prejudices which we need to fight against.

There are so many good fans of PJO (like my friends) but the toxic fans took over the fandom

Yeah, bunch of things are wrong and offensive, but these books were also the entire childhood for some kids. For me, I read them while struggling with depression and they became a comfort. That's not to say there aren't flaws, there are several major flaws in the story.

But I see people bashing Solangelo shippers? Like, canon they weren't the best, but for me personally, Nico was the first character I could relate to. Gay, traumatized, religious trauma, familial issues... He could have been written better, especially his coming out, but I actually really like how the good fans have turned him into a better character. They gave characters depth and turned them into actual people instead of minor characters.

So fuck canon but seriously, can we just appreciate the literature we grew up with and stop bashing people who focus more on fanon or personal headcanons?

Like, I literally feel so guilty for being a fan of these series now because we have toxic fans and then the antis who, while they have valid points, forget how much the saga impacted loves positively. Like guys just be decent people and respect others opinions without making them hate themselves

Romance is not ABOVE friendship and platonic relationships. It exists on the same level, just in a different color/shape/flavor. People need to stop saying, 'Let's take our relationship to the next level' when talking about romance. Seriously, let's not act like friendship and other relationships outside of romance aren't important.

Two times Percy harmed Annabeth

You know, in Percabeth, Annabeth is usually the one harming Percy, but there are two interesting moments where the tables are turned.

Let me explain

When Percy tells Annabeth that her mortal parents aren't so bad in TTC on the flight home and that she should stay in touch with them.

Percy.........what? Rick...........WHAT?

I..........I can't say how horribly written this was.

Annabeth was a child. Her stepmother signed up to raise her when she married Frederick. She literally had night terrors which isn't uncommon in children-

And what did her stepmother do? Did she stay and try to comfort her? Did she take Annabeth to her room so that Annabeth wouldn't be alone? Did she check the room for spiders?

No. No, she did none of this. She just told Annabeth that it was a figment of her imagination and told her to stop scaring her baby brothers.

That's not what you do to a scared child. Her stepmother fucked up with that one. Her stepmother was bad for that.

Mrs Chase also called Annabeth a big girl when she was seven.

SEVEN years old is NOT a big girl. Mrs Chase knowingly did what I listed above and that makes her a terrible person. She's not entirely bad, but she's pretty morally black when it comes to Annabeth.

And Frederick is also horrible. He neglected Annabeth and let Mrs Chase not call him home for his daughter when she needed him. Granted, he was working, but he couldn't have called Annabeth and tried to comfort her?

Percy shouldn't have said that and Rick shouldn't have written that. End of discussion, period.

2. Now, here, Percy isn't even there in the scene and he's not trying to actively harm Annabeth, but I still wanted to include it because I do think that it was still harmful in a way.

'Annabeth shook her head. Percy would hate her getting so philosophical.'

I don't remember which book this is from-I think it's from the Mark of Athena.

Annabeth doesn't want to get philosophical because Percy hates it?

All right, there are certain habits that you might have to change because your partner doesn't like it. Smoking, drinking, watching porn, all harmful activities.

But getting philosophical? There's nothing wrong that. And if Percy doesn't like it, well, that's just too bad. There's nothing wrong with a little compromise there.

Annabeth is allowed to have her own thoughts without her thinking about how Percy would like them. Annabeth doesn't always have to get philosophical with Percy-she can do it on her own or with her other friends. This applies to relationships in general.

It's frustrating to see how Percy and Annabeth always cater to each other first and never even think about their own selves or relationships outside of each other.

I ultimately blame Rick Riordan for making them obsessed with each other.

Vivienne Duarte, Bianca di Angelo and being an older sister

So, in this post, I'm trying to examine how we as a society, even the ones who are progressive, automatically expect the older sibling, more importantly the older sister, to take on the burden of their siblings when their parents can't.

I'm going to use the example of Bianca di Angelo from Percy Jackson.

For context, I'll tell you-Bianca and her younger brother Nico were from pre WWII before the big 3 took the oath, and once her mother was killed by Zeus, her father put her and her brother in the Lotus Casino, which makes time pass slowly while the outside world time goes faster.

Bianca and her brother Nico were in there for about a month according to them but actually 70 years in real time. Keep in mind that during this time, there were no parental figures for them, even if they got everything they materially needed-food, clothes, etc.

Nico also mentions that Bianca was strict with what she let him watch, so this means that she watched over him in the Casino. Not fully, maybe, but she watched over him and felt parentified nonetheless.

Bianca felt that she had to take care of Nico.

And when they come out, they remember that their parents are dead and they go to a military school of all schools. Now Bianca feels like she has to take care of Nico because their parents are dead and because of the general expectations piled onto older sisters and they probably cling to each other a lot, seeing as how Nico didn't mention any friends from his boarding school time.

And when Bianca gets the chance to join the Hunters of Artemis, well, she takes it-and how do people react to this?

Well......they don't like it. They think she's abandoning Nico, they call her selfish, even though she's only 12-a literal child, not even a teenager. And she only wants to not be just a big sister, to have a life for herself. And she's groomed and mislead by two much older women who are also in the guise of being children (Artemis and Zoe) and she's told that she can meet Nico from time to time, but that she won't have to take care of him anymore and that he'll be taken care of. And so she takes the chance. She doesn't know that they're going to camp-she thinks that if she declines, she won't get this again. And she doesn't even think about the possible consequences of this, because again, she's just a scared twelve year old who barely had time to make a decision with a lot of pressure and 3 people there who tried to pressure her into the opposite directions.

No one really thinks about this, do they? They only think about how her joining the Hunters and her death affected Nico, and they judge their reactions to her based on him.

Because the way Bianca was written, she was always the Earth to Nico's Sun. And ultimately, she died and was only ever remembered as Nico's older sister, which is so sadly ironic because she always wanted to be more, but Bianca was doomed from the start.

And now we come to Vivienne Duarte, who can also be a slightly selfish sister, only people love her more because we actually see her helping Jude, and Jude doesn't seem to be that affected by Vivienne's distance from her and Taryn-in fact, Jude has said that Vivienne has come through for her plenty of times, and Vivienne does help Jude a lot over the course of TFOTA, so Vivienne would of course not be hated that much, right?

But, as always with case of older sisters not being there for their younger siblings, there's Vivienne hate for this.

And I mean, I can understand where you're coming from, because maybe it looks like Vivienne should have been there for Jude and Taryn-

But let me tell you, have we ever considered Vivienne as a person, and her desires and wants?

Let me tell you something very frankly-I wholeheartedly believe that if TFOTA was from Vivienne's POV, then a lot of people would be hating Jude and Taryn. We'd all be wondering why they choose to stay with the people who don't care for them and treat them like toys or pets. We'd be cheering Vivienne on, and maybe some of us would take some time to think about Jude or Taryn and maybe even defend them, but ultimately, we would say that they chose to stay in Faerie, so they weather the consequences.

And that's what I'm talking about. Have we ever considered the fact that Vivienne wanted to go back to the human realm, but Jude and Taryn wanted to stay in Faerie?

And then Jude and Taryn grew to love Madoc. Madoc, the man who killed Vivienne's parents, and kidnapped her and her sisters to a foreign land which they knew nothing of, and then her sisters started to love him.

It must have been awful for Vivienne. How many times did she turn away, her heart being pierced, when she saw Jude smile at or hug Madoc? How many times did she blink away tears when she saw Taryn with Madoc?

And she vowed to hate Madoc, but she was forced to live with him because of her sisters, even when she found a way out, because they wanted to go back to his stronghold, and VIVIENNE stayed for JUDE AND TARYN, even though she could have gone and lived in the Mortal Realm using her magic and she could have come and visited them when she wanted to.

Can you imagine a man murdering your parents, then he kidnaps you and your sister and is your biological father? And then your sisters, who aren't his real daughters, grow to love him even though you hate him, and you can't fathom how they can love him, because HE MURDERED YOUR PARENTS IN FRONT OF ALL THREE OF YOU.

I love the fact that she hates him. I love that she tried to kill him and betrayed him for her sisters. I love her for that.

And Vivienne did try to protect Jude and Taryn, but their relationshop fractured as Jude and Taryn grew to love Elfhame and Madoc, and that's realistic, because which person in Vivienne's place, with all her trauma and vows, would not hate her sisters a little for doing what they did?

And now we come to Vivienne's desires.

I mean, I already told you that she wanted to go and live in the mortal world away from Faerie, but she stayed for her sisters. Was she planning to stay forever if she had met Heather? Probably not, but she would have stayed longer.

But I think that when she met Heather and Heather wanted Vivienne to move in with her, Vivienne realised that it was either her or her sisters' desires-

And she chose herself over them.

And I think that that was wonderful, because she couldn't stay behind forever. She couldn't sacrifice forever.

And let me tell you, she offered so many times to Jude and Taryn, she said, hey, let's go back, stop being the the crazy psychos, and they kept saying no, we want to live here.

And Vivienne ultimately accepted that she couldn't always just try to help her younger sisters, that she and they would have to go their own separate ways, that ultimately she couldn't help them anymore. That Jude would have to fend for herself, that Taryn would have to find a husband.

And so she chose to leave for herself, and I think that that's so bittersweet, because she was leaving them behind for a new life, and she must have been hurt too, but she stopped sacrificing for her sisters. And she knew that she was immortal, so she could come back and visit them when they were settled.

And she tried, one last time, and she was even prepared to give up Heather for her sisters, but then they refused, and she gave it up entirely.

But I think that if Jude ever came to her, then Vivienne would help her, always.

Yes, Vivienne did play with Cardan, but that was most likely before he started bullying Jude and Taryn. Jude literally said that Vivienne stopped attending classes and also that she and Taryn hid their trauma in Faerie from Vivienne, so Vivienne didn't know that Jude and Taryn were bullied. And being the big sister that she is, she would never tolerate Cardan if she knew that he was bullying Jude and Taryn.

Bianca died, and Vivienne lived, and when people think of Vivienne Duarte, they're not always going to remember her as Jude's older sister, because she's so much more.

Vivienne stopped taking care of Jude and Taryn when she felt that she didn't need to and realized that they needed to fend for themselves and she couldn't always help them.

I feel like Bianca and Vivienne could have such a talk.........

@madockisser not sure if you've read Percy Jackson but what do you think about this? I'm trying to understand Vivienne's POV and I feel like I made some good points here, but I want your opinion too

I’m gonna say it - practically everything Nico ever did getting retconned as “because he had a crush on Percy” is some of the most amatonormative shit I’ve seen in my entire life.

True words. True words.

It's extremely annoying that many people think that a person would move mountains and do impossible things only for someone whom they love romantically. This is just not true.

There are people who would do this for their friends. Menelaus said that he would drive out the people of an entire kingdom just so that Odysseus could come and rule there with his people, and he didn't like Odysseus romantically.

It seems that Rick Riordan cannot for the life of him put platonic relationships before romance-or rather, he can't do this without involving a virginity oath. His heteronormativity is crystal clear when you take a critical look at his books and Nico and Leo's unnecessary romantic relationships.

Why do you hate the judo flip

Honey, you're talking to a sane, logical, rational person who doesn't normalise physical assault and victim blaming, not one of your Percabeth stan mutuals. Hope this clears things up :)